57 – Justice League Heroes Trailer

coverblackRecorded October 8th. “Ride ain’t over yet.”Ā  Reaction to the Justice League Heroes Trailer.

Answers, insights, and commentary on:

  • I. Justice League Heroes Trailer (4:23 – 22min)
    • First, a world without Superman
    • Second, rising threat
    • Third, heroes apart
    • Fourth, failing alone
    • Fifth, becoming heroes
    • Sixth, together
    • Seventh, celebration
  • II. Footnotes Pt. 1 (26:45 – 25min)
    • Change My View
    • Superman and the League
      • Cornerstone – Founder
      • Capstone – Final
    • Opposite Idioms
      • Love of Wisdom
      • Philosophers Fight
    • “God is Dead” applied to Superman
    • Quartet of the Vulnerable
    • Zechariah 7:9-10 (Superman)
      • Widow
      • Fatherless
      • Foreigner
      • Poor
    • Micah 6:8 (Wonder Woman)
      • Do Justice
      • Love Mercy
      • Walk Humbly
    • Mercy Is Not Condoning Evil
    • Nothing was ever simple
  • III. Footnotes Pt. 2 (52:02 – 18min)
    • Sexism in Superman ’78
    • Stopping Sexual Harassment in Man of Steel
    • Reality is Complex
    • Expectations
      • Engagement Ring is a milestone not culmination of a relationship
      • Justice League is a milestone not end all, be all superhero experience
      • All in for a multiverse of infinite stories
    • Hero’s Journey is a Cycle, Bringing Superman Full Circle
    • Be the Hero of Your Own Life’s Journey
    • We Can Be Heroes

To learn more:
Justice League – Official Heroes Trailer | Warner Bros. Pictures
Justice: What’s the Right Thing To Do? | Michael Sandel
Justice Course | Harvard Justice
Justice: Rights and Wrongs | Nicholas Wolterstorff
Out of the Darkness Walks | American Foundation for Suicide Prevention

End notes recorded October 13th and 21st
Winning Arguments | Chenhao Tan
Superman: The Movie (1978) | Richard Donner
Heroes (cover, 2003) | Bon Jovi

Web: ManOfSteelAnswers.com
Twitter: @mosanswers
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  1. Hi, what do you think of “Truth, Justice, and Freedom” as an updated Superman motto? Didn’t the original American Dream refer to the freedom of opportunity?

    • Great question, which is packed with potential discussion topics which is why I kind of pushed past it. I think Justice is encompassing of Freedom, the American Way, the American Dream, opportunity, etc. even though they’re referring to different things sometimes because Justice, itself, is understood differently (or in different measure) by people. In Michael Sandel’s book, Justice: What’s the Right Thing To Do?, he breaks down popular political perception of Justice into three main categories (with every individual view and application being a mixture in different proportions): Maximizing welfare (happiness), Maximizing freedom (liberty), Maximizing virtue ([meaning of] life)… you might recognize that trio from the Declaration of Independence.

      Your political views or perspective will affect how you think the best way to achieve a just society with all three should be accomplished. For example, a libertarian will put emphasis on freedom, want to maximize individual autonomy without imposition of the state, and in that sense leave people to their own welfare and happiness. However, one side will look at freedom as freedom from inequity and impose controls to prevent disparity, while another might look at freedom as freedom from vice and evil, and propose controls intended to create a virtuous society. So if these parties all look at “freedom” differently (as they would The American Way, etc), I think they may as well have that discussion with the central tenant of Justice. Even whether you should go with the “original” meaning of any term (like the American Dream) is a discussion. Some think it means social mobility, equal access, meritocracy, but also consumerism… and some insist it’s a lie… so it doesn’t necessarily clarify anything to add it.

      That said, while the American Way means many different things to different people, it was added less because of a certain view of what it meant and more of a declaration of patriotism / nationalism, which starts the discussion on our views on community duties- if any- and covered here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOotE9_OGGs by Sandel much better than I can summarize here. And, like any view, there are merits and pitfalls. I think Justice philosophy had communal concepts through most of human history, then modern philosophers boiled it back to the individual because that’s the most elemental unit for thought experiment, but more contemporary philosophy is coming back to recognizing ancient precepts that no man is an island… that doesn’t mean you give over your soul to the State (and the atrocities that leads to), but recognizing some inherent connection tied up in all of this.

      In short, look, it would make for another great sound bite, but not add much meaning. It’s easy to tack on “Freedom” or throw out words like “hope”, “optimism”, “patriot”, or “fun” to make some people feel good… but not necessarily further the conversation if everyone has a different concept of what is being discussed in their own minds. For example, you can illustrate the subjectivity of “fun” easily with camping. Take two different people camping and one will have the time of their life and the other will be miserable… so what does it mean to say “camping is fun” it’s a tautology or circular reasoning “camping is fun to people who find camping fun.” We can break that down more, of course, but “fun” didn’t further the conversation (and why I try to avoid it in my discussion of film). Anyways, I’m rambling and you can see why my episodes explode in length if I don’t have a set structure to follow… even after lots of editing, I ended up basically putting three-episodes-in-one! šŸ˜›

      Thanks for the thought provoking question!

  2. I just wanted to say thank you. I really appreciate all the work you do. Love your podcast & youtube channel. I didnt understand the hate MoS got. Especially considering how I thought it was the single greatest Superman adaption I had seen. Your work made the world smaller. I focused on that.
    Thank you!

  3. Since today is the official debut of JL, I hope you can give us your review, at least as a non-spoiler post as you did with BvS. Iā€™m very excited to watch it today, so I would love to discuss it with everyone.

  4. Agreed. I love your podcasts. While I am eager to hear your thoughts I must have patience. They quality of each episode speaks volumes of the work you must put into each one.

    • Thank you. For context and reference, consider the release date until I released an episode prior:
      – BvS – 3/25 to 4/9 – 15 days
      – UC – 6/28 to 7/15 – 17 days
      – SS – 8/5 to 8/10 – 10 days
      – WW – 6/2 to 6/26 – 24 days
      – JL – 11/17 to today – 17 days…

  5. Just came home from watching it, and here are my thoughts:

    While I do agree with Sam Otten’s notion that both MoS and BvS where deeper/richer than this film, I don’t think that its a bad thing. We knew from the beginning that the third part of the Snyder trilogy would be the bright “dawn” after the “dusk” that we got last year, so the film’s tone wasn’t an issue for me.

    The very first scene was adorable, and I wish it would’ve been longer. The Flash is definitely the biggest source of humor in the film, and I bet the younger audiences will love him. I felt that Superman’s resurrection was simple and to the point, nothing to flashy, just like in the original “Return of Superman” storyline. And something that I definitely can’t understand is how some folks are stating that Steppenwolf was a weak villain. I don’t think he was as great as Zod or Luthor, but I did feel that his motivations and actions are much more believable than, say, Enchantress’ or Ares’.

    Going back to Superman, I don’t know how many of you are aware that today is also the 25th anniversary of the “Death of Superman” storyline. 2 important events of DC’s long history sharing the same date!

    One last thing. This film is supposed to be 2 hours long, so it said in the official runtime and my clock did say that I exited the theaters over 2 hours after getting inside, yet the film felt so short! I definitely wanted to see more, after seeing the final scene I thought to myself; “Is it over already!?” My desire to rewatch it only got bigger after it ended.

    Overall, I think this film has great rewatchability, and that general audiences will enjoy to watch it more than once (that Post-Credits scene is worth enough to pay to watch it more than once). And once again, I can’t wait to read/listen your review Dr.

    • I do agree that Steppenwolf was a missed opportunity. While I understand what he wanted to do, I just did not get to know him well enough. Many things were hinted in the film, from his obsession with the Amazon, his exile after failing to invade the Earth, his ambition to join the new gods, his relationship with Darkseid. I could fill in the blank my self but just wish the movie could have more room to breath and let us know Steppenwolf better.

  6. Seen it twice and went from confused to down right angry. It’s just a different concept of a movie, a Frankenstein mostly steered and approved by Geoff Johns. Having already forced changes on Snyder right on principal photography they’ve pushed him aside and tried to create their own separate canon. It’s a shame.
    In 2013 I fell in love with Superman in a way that continues to resonate with me. Clark’s story was so full of soul it still enriches my thoughts.
    But alas, that’s over now, officially buried with Superman in the grave, and in my mind still there.
    Zack Snyder, I owe you a great thanks for enriching my thoughts, and you too Doc, for you to start this channel to search through MoS and expand with the stories, I know where Man of Steel sits in your heart.
    Whatever your thoughts on JL I’m sure you’ll broadcast them. For now, I’ll pine for better days of 2013 and it’s companion piece in 2016 (BvS). It’s over though. I do not recognise this Frankenstein of a movie from film makers with such a disparate understanding of Clark’s story and intertwining the others.

    THE END.

    • Be strong Planet G. I was confused too, but I have learned to love the film despite many things it did. Kinda like Suicide Squad. Louis Lane was the key. Her speech at the end pretty much sums up my feeling for me. I am just glad for these characters now that they are in a position where we can move forward with countless possibilities. However, I do feel like the threat they face from now on must be more personal (i.e Legion of Doom). Save the intergalactic threat like Darkseid for later. It will be a long year till Aquaman gets here.

  7. Is it interesting that Bruce ends up helping Martha Kent by buying the bank? He is in a position to help widows and orphans with his wealth. Though he had to start out attacking a fatherless refugee. That was mean. But the Kents were kind for taking in an orphaned refugee. No wonder Clark helps people. He was that vulnerable orphan who needed taking in. And Batman has the potential to help Barry also. Is it funny that superheroes often have origin stories where they go from being a orphan in need of help to saving the world?

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