Man of Steel answers insight commentary episode 11 Lois Ln. and will ask the obvious question start asking questions and answers welcome to Man of Steel answers insight commentary on your Man of Steel apologist Dr. awkward I cover a mosaic of topics for fans who love discussing the Man of Steel and the DC cinematic universe together will endeavor to answer the questions criticisms and controversies raised by Man of Steel and those excited by the anticipated DC cinematic universe today it's all things Lois Lane will probably come back to her again in the future but in this episode we tackle the questions and criticisms related to the character will cover the tradition of how the character was honored and what were looking forward to in the future will tackle Amy Adams being in the news react to some rumors and if we got time will wrap with the mailbag this podcast dives deep into Man of Steel to answer the critics and the confused the show is not meant to convert anybody but the celebrate a film that will lead us into the DC cinematic universe reasonable minds will differ but this is a show for fans who love to Man of Steel and who love to chew their food Lois Lane probably the second largest character in the mid-she's had a comic book series she had a TV show she's been in every film and TV show except the Legion of superheroes and no slight against wonder woman I'm a huge fan but at one point her brand value actually exceeded wonder woman's Lois is the most adapted mainstream superhero comic book character who is in the superhero there are many metrics you can use to prove this but a convenient one is how many Internet movie database entries appear on the characters combined filmography and videogame appearances this is simply an illustration so don't take it too seriously or authoritatively for your information here of the numbers on the Trinity remember this is the number of IMDb entries combining film are a few appearances and videogame appearances for the Trinity Batman 315 Superman 262 wonder woman 116 and then Lois Lane comes in at 108 now obviously we should take the Marvel characters into consideration for comparison sake Spiderman Marvel's biggest hero has 136 entries and incidentally if you remove the videogame appearances Spiderman has only 105 entries compared to Lois lanes 100 entries if you remove her videogame appearances just a difference of five entries now talking again about the combined injuries Wolverine comes in at 99 the Hulk and 92 and Ironman at 77 and just around it out let's look at Batman supporting cast members Robin comes in at 106 two less than Lois Lane and Alfred comes in at 74 again this is just illustrative trivia it's not meant as hard data a lot of these appearances are fan films and TV sketches about what we're seeing is that Lois Lane is iconic in her own right Lois is a big part of making the Superman mythos a more complete human character from the cradle to beyond her importance is a reflection of how Superman has become in popular culture Romantic figure perhaps a little bit away from his action origins in 78 he had a film where he never punches anybody and turns back time for the woman he loves in Superman two he gives up his powers to be with her now and Superman three and in for Lois plays perhaps a glorified cameo role three is romantically inclined towards Lana and in for we have a whole double dating issue be Lacey Warfield and by that time they were already retreading their own steps Superman reveals his identity to Lois again and then takes it away again with his magic casts perhaps her diminished role is part of what contributes to those two films not holding that the same status or steam at least in part if you believe in one true pairings Superman perhaps isn't that guy in absolute terms with many other contenders for his heart over the ages but the pairing of Lois and Clark is probably about as ODP as a couple can get in popular culture when you look at Superman returns was all about how he was powerless to get the girl and Lois and Clark was a romantic comedy with light adventure elements small bill was pretty much a soap opera so given this preoccupation romance naturally the figure of his affection and their mostly mutual love story would loom large romance is compelling but I'd suggest that there's also perhaps a little bit of an economic component that is created this emphasis and that goes beyond fiction romance of course is appealing to broader audiences but romance also costs a whole lot less the film then effects laden action so this has created its own tradition were many would be satisfied with a largely romantic film and whether only one or two action set pieces and this is more or less what Superman returns was an even how Bryan Singer described his own film of course if you're a fan of the comics you probably know that the role of romance tends to be greatly reduced in proportion to the action nonetheless it's important and present so how does Man of Steel tackle it that's what were going to talk about today under the start with another lightning round awkward to answer all those questions in short answer and then will go back show my work and do the expanded apologetics for the rest of the podcast then at the end will tackle little bit of the Lois Lane news that we talked about and perhaps some of the rumors there So question how did Lois get access to be Ellesmere Island site answer by invitation and accommodate a background of interagency jurisdiction military tribunals and international diplomacy which could of been phrased better question printed or I walk answer it's an exchange of unlikely threats made lose a gifted prestigious reporter and she of damages and have to deal with noncompete constraints on contract question why week the article answer for exactly the reason she says to reach her rescue and it works it's proven by Clark's arrived at the cemetery question how did Clark track Lois down to the cemetery answer her article work and he has his own investigative chops question why was Lois at Superman surrender does not answer she's there it Superman's request to see her freed and at her own to bear witness and report question how did failer know who Lois was answer Lois Lane's name was broadcast in connection to Cal Al during a televised interview with the blogger who leaked her article question why did Zide want Lois on the ship answer to interrogator as to the location a codecs and potentially as leverage against callow question why was Lois allowed in the C-17 the plane delivering Superman's ship answer to tackle emergent issues based on her first hand receipt of the plan and her experience on a kryptonian ship question was the kiss forced answer know it was a heat of the moment acknowledgment of their mutual attraction chemistry and not a declaration of everlasting love and commitment question why would Lois be attracted Clark answer he saved her life he exhibited heroism vulnerability transparency self-sacrifice and he's pretty physically attractive in studying his feats that he never expected to accountable for the presents the picture of a genuine altruist and hero question why would Superman be attracted to Lois answer she saw what he was an rather being afraid went towards it she saw his true self and she honored his father's memory a great personal expense she didn't disrespect Martha she kept his secret even when incarcerated she accompanied him into enemy territory she volunteered in a mission to save humanity and she garnered the respect Jor-El even costume she simply sees and she's physically attractive question was the kiss in poor taste answer know the heat of the moment aspect once any criticism the scene is played along a realistic spectrum as opposed to being trope driven for the audience expectations drive romantic plot points from last questions and if you just hang on with me question who says it's all downhill after the first test answer will read in the 1990 saw modern dance you can see a more thorough answer blog question was her line in Superman's response to cringe worthy answer this question was that intentional answer maybe it may have been an intentional antithesis of romance where you're approaching reality versus romance the climactic case is a romantic trope but in reality most people case in court kind of awkwardly and in ways that aren't quite cinematic question how did Lois Lane get to train station in time answer I don't know question is Lois Lane to convene answer I don't think so but that's up to you question does Lois have enough edge answer she straight up kills two people and self-defense I think she's got edge question she's got red hair answer that's not question so what question was it worth losing the love trying answer we may have lost the traditional version but Superman's job can still come between them again a lot with this fresh bright that was a lightning round not so lightning this time around but let's really get into the nitty-gritty and talk about these issues one of the time so the first topic is Ellesmere Island and Lois Lane says to Col. Hardy the only reason I'm here is because were on Canadian soil and the appellate court overruled your injunction to keep the away I don't know that this line bothered most will however as an attorney it struck a chord with me and you can find a more thorough analysis of this line at the legal blog the law and the multi-verse an injunction is a form of judicial relief ordering some form of action as opposed to say money damages or criminal punishment here from the context court has granted Col. Hardy an injunction to keep Lois Lane away from the site however Lois managed to appeal the decision to a higher court overturn it and gain access to the base now as illustrated by the blog this is problematic because journalists do not have a right of access to military bases to Hardy would not have to seek an injunction against her in the first place the other problem they raise is that civil cases tend to be slow however I think an apologetic framework is possible if you take into account her Canadian soil comment and don't assume that the Ellesmere research site is a sovereign US military base that gives Canada the authority and perhaps an interest in inviting Lois specifically just her to observe and report on something of possible historic import to be accredited to the nation of Canada Lois is not there asserting any kind of nonexistent press access privilege as critiqued by the blog but instead as an invitee to let the world know about this history making discoveries made on Canadian soil so with a standing invitation the US military could move to enjoin or block via injunction Canada's granted access to the site that there currently participating in or with citing some sort of security interest in court could have granted that injunction on that reasoning requiring Lois to appeal and Lois appeals to a higher court who likely reverses on technical grounds which entitle Canada to allow invitees onto their own soil during joint ventures on the question of speed is an issue if everything is handled by military tribunals and the decisions are driven more by international diplomatic considerations than law that everything could be quickly resolved as we see in the film you could still nitpick Lois's usage of the word appellate court when speaking about a higher military tribunal but no words can still be broadly received as technically correct if all this legalese is making your head spin I'll just quickly provide a simple hypothetical chain of events Canada discovers the site and because of its significance invites the US military aid and working it there is no press privilege to access the site Lois catches wind of its newsworthiness and plies the Canadian Prime Minister to grant her access as an invitee she convinces him that this story will be of importance to Canada and his administration to the PM grants the invitation and orders her to have access to the US military on the site received word of her arrival and brush out to a military tribunal to deny Lois access despite the prime minister's invitation and the Canadian soil so Lois's departure is block and she goes over the tribunals had to a higher tribunal one with greater political and diplomatic considerations likely recognizing that Canada could just as easily eject the US from their soil as they invited them in the first place and so they find some justification to reverse the lower decision and they reinstate the Canadian prime minister's invitation under such sequence of events nothing said is out of place but there probably would have been better or more elegant dialogue to get to the same or better results one more legal mumbo-jumbo topic of them were done with that I promise Lois says printed or I walk Perry replies it can't your under contract this one to you can find a complete analysis of at the same blog law and the multi-verse know obviously the planet can't force her to work there however her employment contract could include provisions which would result in consequences that should be reluctant to face such as owing damages to the paper falling afoul the noncompete clause prohibiting her from going to a competitor with her talents it's basically an unlikely exchange of threats they lose a gifted prestigious reporter and Chino damages and have to deal with not being to work her field and noncompete clause prevents talent from running to a competitor and using their abilities knowledge and experience against their original employer of course from the collider interview with Zack Snyder we know that metropolis reside in a federal district which incidentally declined to enforce noncompete clauses but careful construction of a contract can try to get around that as well the real question is if Lois knows this then why make the threatened the first place and it simple it's just to show how serious she is Perry reminds her of the consequences but she could still walk and in fact she does do something that subjects are two possible termination and some of the consequences of walking under an employment contract WikiLeaks the story the shareholders threatened to sue her which is like the money damages and she suspended so she can't work so her punishment for leaking the article is a lesser form of the same punishment that she would've experienced if she had quit under contract reinforcing the idea that such a contract is in place okay that's the last the technical legalese argument I promise I had to get them out of my system and if you make it this far talk about much more intuitive issues going forwards so why leak the article Lois tells us explicitly she says I want the story out there because I want my mystery man to know I know the truth what's interesting about that is that she isn't afraid of the truth compared to everyone else that is implied to freak out over this information about extraterrestrial publication is Lois is only way to reach her mystery man and indeed it work because Clark shows up at the cemetery talk about that in a bit but another thing we should point out is that Lois's approach is also an illustration for why Superman was smart to use Swanwick as a liaison rather than the press as we talked about in our last episode when her story is released to the press Lois lost control of the message she was sold out by Woodburn she was name dropped on a 24 hours news channel and accordingly she was picked up by the feds by comparison the very nature of the military requires that they have the ability to control information the classic example is concealing troop movements from the enemy so by following his communications through a secure line like Swanwick Superman ensures that his message reaches Washington without the distortion of the media and its commentators so that's just another reason that Superman would reach out to Swanwick as opposed to making a public statement or debut for the press as he may have done in other other versions of the story the next topic we have is how did Clark track down Lois to the cemetery so I sent that Clark showing up at the cemetery is proof that Lois's article works and how I think many people assume that after Lois visited Martha Martha gives Clark Hall and that's how that matter is resolved and honestly if they wanted a smoother logical timeline that's probably the way to go however that's not the way the film went Martha says a reporter came by here Clark responds she's a friend don't worry so it's clear that Martha didn't call Clark to tell him about Lois think the reason the filmmakers took this approach in my opinion was to increase the impact of Clark's surprise visit and the impact of him revealing his discovery to his mother in person you might've lost little impact if they signaled that the two had talked on the phone prior lines might've gone something like mom don't worry about the reporter that you called me about she's a friend I have some news that I had to tell universe in the tiny nitpick but let's just move on so Clark arriving at the cemetery just as Lois was standing there isn't an accident rather it's proof that Lois his plan worked and the her article reached you have to remember that Lois leaked the article days if not weeks ago then she flew back to the Arctic and traced Clark steps back until she arrived in small bill that we get a glimpse of that search really see the landmarks that we've already been shown in the film but Lois in her narration or in the reading of her article refers to a lifetime of covering tracks into urban legends implying a much larger unseen history there's no way she could have investigated and covered all that but through effort and time so in the meantime Clark hasn't been sitting with Jor-El and just twiddling his thumbs he doesn't know that Zide is coming and he had so many questions so Clark spends his time asking his multitude of questions however one of the things that I'm sure he did shortly after dropping Lois off or shortly after discovering how to fly was to check the Internet for two things first the reaction to the departure of the ship and to whether Lois was okay now the Pentagon's denials may have given him the sense that he could learn from Jor-El and peace rather than expect a military search for his ship and finding Lois's article would've told them that she somebody to keep an eye on a Pulitzer prize-winning reporter who has seen his face and is invested in learning more about him Clark would justifiably begin to keep tabs on her and employ his own investigative chops know why my going to the so much because it answers some questions later about the mutual trust admiration and attraction based on perhaps a lengthy long-distance courtship of sorts Eric jump ahead from that seem to the time that Superman is surrendering to his odd why is Lois a civilian a journalist present at that scene and I believe that she's there at Superman's request and at her own Superman once are there to see that she isn't being kept inside and is an about to be disappeared again and Lois may want to be there simply to witness the hand off to be able to report on it and out of genuine concern for Superman's well-being the why would the military agree to these terms and because they have no ability to enforce an alternative if review it cynically let's say they forbid Lois from being allowed topside well then Superman could just take off rather than surrender their relying entirely on Superman's cooperation in the circumstance now we know that Superman is too trustworthy for that they haven't developed that experience with him yet so the next question is how did Fiorella know who Lois was an that one's pretty simple and straightforward Zide had clearly gathered enough intelligence about earth engage its military capabilities to use its language to assess callow's presence and to recognize that Colwell surrender and interrogation was necessary the broadcast of his ultimatum demonstrates the ability to hijack everything the screen it isn't too hard to imagine that some part of the intelligence gathered was the broadcast of Lois his name in connection to callow during that interview with the blogger who leaked the article like any military commander he observes the drop site there about the land into they see that she's there and we come to the next big question which is often a point of criticism for the film and the question is why did Zide want Lois on the ship the short and obvious answer is to interrogate her as the location of the codecs and to use her as potential leverage against callow let's develop and explained that first let's be clear Zide doesn't need Lois she is not a necessity and Zide didn't ask for or demand her presence at the drop site this is clear from the fact that Feodor's demand comes as a surprise and the Col. Hardy objects that doesn't mean that God would pass up an opportunity that presented so let's put ourselves in's odds mindset for a moment Zonta has come to earth essentially for one thing the codecs but it's the very same thing that is his sole weakness in this encounter is on has superior firepower superior technology and better information and intelligence on the humans than they have on him now of sod were adept at diplomacy or guile he could have with about this differently but because of krypton's cast system his toolbox is limited for example rather than petitioning the Council he attempts a coup and rather than pretending to come in peace key issues and ultimatum but nevertheless he has enough sense not ask for the codecs directly again the only thing that he wants or needs from humanity is information about the codecs now sure he could have terraform the planet as his first strike but then he may have spent a lifetime digging through rubble looking for the codecs or worse he doesn't know if such attack or up action would cause Cal Al or the humans to destroy the codecs in the process or in retaliation Zide doesn't know what information if any Jor-El has passed on to Cal Al Sills I can't reveal his one and only desire and let humanity know his only reason for sparing them up to this point instead quite reasonably he indirectly asks for the two individuals on the planet they he is aware of most likely having information about codecs Cal Al and his human female confidant Zide has reliable interrogation technology so once there aboard a ship he can drop any pretense of treaty Zide has the broadcast with the blogger says that Lois knows who Cal Al is an from's odds ultimatum Zide makes it clear that Cal Al has Himself hidden as he says for reasons unknown to the idea the Cal Al allowed somebody into his circle of confidence that's enough reason to interrogate that confidant if Colwell entrusted her with his identity who knows what else like the codecs he may have also interest her with Zide wants Lois for the same reason that the government wanted Lois she's alleged to have unique and confidential automation about callow whether she does or not Zide obviously doesn't know it's merely an accusation however from's odds perspective the planet authorities seized her based on this allegation and if they had reason to believe in the information why should he discard that opportunity he didn't specifically ask for most to be there but clearly they were monitoring closely enough that they recognized her on site since the opportunity presented itself there was no reason not to take it nothing requires Zide only take callow and having Lois increases the viability and the likelihood of his plan succeeding that just a quick aside a little bit of editorial note that when Lois volunteers to go Superman doesn't object this suggests that at this point in time Superman still believes that Zide may honor his word but in relation to Lois it means that he views her as strong enough to do this he doesn't immediately consider her incapable of accompanying him or view her only as a potential liability rescue me he sees her as an ally and she proves worthy of that trust and belief additionally look at the ease with which Lois volunteers showing her bravery enters she's stepping directly into the lions den without hesitation she shows that same bravery for next question in the next scene to talk about where she volunteers and yet that's another common criticism about Lois being conveniently ever present where superficially she seems like she doesn't belong and that's on the C-17 the cargo plane that delivers Superman's ship critics detractors and the confused will ask why was Lois allowed in the plane the C-17 delivering Superman's ship we answered this pretty thoroughly in our mailbag last episode but in brief Lois volunteers and the military agrees to have Lois there to tackle any emergent issues arising from the alien technology and the plan Lois received the plan first-hand Jor-El and she's the only human alive with experience being on a kryptonian ship those two combined fax means that she may have something to offer that she didn't even know that she could even if she tried to convey everything that she thought she knew they have to deal with this spontaneity because they can't test the ship without tipping their hand Tony so Lois is therefore her experience and that's what happens in the movie even if it is for such a small thing like the fact that the command key should be flush with the console is another quick question around this area Superman saves Lois from falling a plane as to why Lois could fall while the debris flies upwards it answered this several times in the podcast you can check out our first episode or episode 10 but in short only things that have been in the Phantom zone or exposed to Phantom drive energy gets sucked into the singularity now this is Superman's third physical rescue of Lois forth if you count freedom from the government and roughly 6 or so if you count stopping Zide from shooting her down stopping the world engine and then stopping thought himself does Superman saves Lois too much in this film think she's about on par with most other portrayals clearly this Lois is no damsel in distress as will tackle and talk about when we discussed her edge in a later question so they a like to the ground they kiss and we get the common complaint in question of whether that kiss was forced the criticism is that the kiss wasn't earned it wasn't romantic it didn't feel natural and it wasn't realistic since the characters haven't had time to develop feelings for one another and combined with this are the questions of why Lois would be attracted Clark and why Superman would be attracted to Lois well one way to answer these sort of criticisms is almost to agree to the point and say so what in other words Man of Steel endeavors to be realistic rather than a movie suspended by tropes the idea of having to earn a kiss or for a kiss to be a romantic climax these are tropes external to reality yes we've been trained by film to expect these things correlate but in reality you just need a heat of the moment mutual attraction and chemistry and then you can guess it doesn't have to be laden with meeting or be a declaration of Everly love sometimes a kiss is just a kiss we talked earlier about how romantic the Superman legacy has become so there may be some merit to the idea that this was an intentionally anti-romantic approach but more on that later that's one way you could answer the question the other way you can answer these complaints is to show that it is more than an immediate in the moment attraction and the actually have had time to develop deeper and more intense feelings towards one another I think the harrowing series of events of the tube just underwent easily explained any intensity to their feelings but as far as death I think Clark exhibits transparency and Lois proves herself extraordinary the to start off as rescue her and rescue we with Clark saving her life while jeopardizing her career Lois leaks or story to find not to make her mark in history but to reach him she defies the conventional thinking of humanity being frightened of Clark because of what he is and as we discussed in the timeline above she spends weeks researching And in doing this she's seeing his story while he is being his truest self a man that wants to help even if it cost same roots and being able to settle down by his movements Clark obviously isn't doing any of this for glory or fame instead he's a true altruistic is exhibiting heroism and self-sacrifice is a Guardian Angel as she writes now also in the above timeline Clark is watching her research and getting closer to the truth and he doesn't foil her investigation he see somebody who's drawn towards him rather than running away or putting out fear mongering somebody who's pursuing the truth now doubtless he investigates her body of work and it shows her to be impressive by the time that they need a Jonathan grave Clark already knows that he's exposed but Lois offers to tell his story she's not afraid of an Clark is not afraid of her despite her profession being about spreading the truth in an incredible act of vulnerability and trust he tells her the story of his most painful moment and the questions which have been tormenting him for years was my father right and if he wasn't what does that mean about his death in my part of it in a you can live in a home with somebody for a lifetime and never share anything of substance however in that moment Clark laid his so there to Lois and she proved worthy of it she honors Clark's father's memory a great personal expense and she keeps his secret even when incarcerated and intimidated by the government Lois accompanies him into enemy territory she volunteers in a mission to save humanity and she garners the attention and respect Jor-El and even when Clark is in costume she simply sees him there's more than enough there for the to do have deep affection towards one another even in such a short amount of time as an audience we don't necessarily have the time to feel the weight of that develop except I think it's palpable in the quote unquote interrogation scene the chemistry there is powerful and despite the stakes there is an adorable playfulness there words the go unspoken but are clearly communicated in looks and posture and expression go something like you endured of duction and questioning for me and you didn't betray me I can trust you and you revealed yourself and asked for me I can trust you to have somebody go to bat for you like that is a powerful moving thing a Man of Steel something from an interview answer that Amy Adams gave Vogue regarding how you know if you're in love and she says to make you feel special hell celebrate you and help bring out the best in you know Clark easily makes Lois feel special by being utterly transparent with her and making her his sole confidant he faces the military for her and he faces the kryptonian's with her and I think it's safe to say that meeting Clark has pushed Lois to be her best whether syncing a story for ethical reasons for fighting kryptonian's so there is room for interpreting love here but under either interpretation you can see that the kiss was realistic but even if you buy the idea of the kiss is realistically precipitated by events there's the criticism and the question both in story and out of whether the kiss was in poor taste the idea of the criticism is that given the death and destruction surrounding them that the two should've been more solemn and grave rather than impassioned and is a creative criticism the argument is that the filmmakers shouldn't have forced such a moment and missed an apocalyptic setting with death and violence preceding and following the casts will address and in story criticism first I don't think it was a matter of taste per se Superman had just save the earth in his mind he doesn't know that Zonta still out there he's past his ultimate test and in the heat of the moment he's profoundly attracted to this precious woman that he's embracing and so there moved casts and this is realistic as opposed to being trope driven in reality you feel what you feel whether it's appropriate or not you can feel carnal in the Cathedral or furious at the fallen in a funeral you can resent the relative feelings are bound by taste or propriety of the film realistically approaches there's happening in a moment that you could frown upon and the fact that you could frown upon it I think critics take that as tone deafness will the awkwardness of the scene makes me concede that this is entirely a possibility but on the other hand it could be incredibly intentional I mean everything in this film has so much incredible intentionality it makes me think it's possible that this was also intentional not to hit on some preconceived kiss quota or some romantic trope but like the rest the film as intentional confrontation of our trope-based expectations presenting something that's confronting but nonetheless entirely valid and relevant think is a perhaps supportable by some of our next questions when Lois says they say it's all downhill after the first kissed the question is who says it's all downhill after the first guest the kiss to say this and I consulted with many individuals more cultured and well read than I with decades of life experience in different interests and fields and yet I could only find one person who could place the reference and in this case they is Lou Reed in the 1990 solve modern dance and you can read the blog entry that talks about this more but I don't think this is a common saying at all rather I think Lois is quoting this song in reference to the unconventional nature of their courtship however her reference goes over Clark's head she's a city dwelling military brat with international or multicultural past from a base hopping childhood maybe we don't know for certain with this version of Lois however Clark is somewhat younger and he's from Kansas and a pre-broadband Internet era and so the reference properly goes right over his head and he responds I'm pretty sure that only counts when you're kissing a human as a yes ask yourself was her line and Superman's response cringe worthy and I think you know by now that I love this I don't think anyone who doesn't could spend this many hours analyzing and explaining every proposed plot hole raised by detractors however part of me can't help but feel that these lines and a few others may be could've been workshop polished so I would have to do acrobatics for their apologetics Superman statement is unintentionally derogatory towards Lois if applied as stated then things will go down for him since he's kissing a human can't find any intrinsic meaning in these lines and so my best effort is to argue that their complete awkwardness is in and of itself purposeful it's an intentional antithesis of romance whereas the climactic kiss is the romantic trope with the lovebirds share profound intimate sweet nothings like you complete me in reality people kiss in court awkwardly and very little of it could be deemed cinematic instead this could be viewed as a perfectly modern moment that reflects the tone of the film they're not Messerli in love not really but today people don't need to be to casts instead it was a realistic and pragmatic know I'm really attracted to you right now instead of romantic and idealized it sort of a send up a counter to the following that you just may recognize her or it is a he recognized that as the over-the-top extraordinarily romantic thoughts of Lois Lane in Superman the movie and Man of Steel takes the approach where there kiss diffuses the unrealistic expectations of some epic romance were Superman would turn back time for Lois did just that instead the kiss is just acknowledging there is unquestionable chemistry and that's why the to joke bother doing it it's a little in your face but if it's with the overall mission of the film the terribleness of the lines may be an indictment of what film romance has become now honestly I don't know and I would love your answers insight and comments on this in the form of email feedback comments on the blog right now that we've extricated ourselves from there kiss let's quickly tackle a few more questions are right the next question is how did Lois get to the train station in time in real time about two minutes pass from Lois noticing's odd and Superman's reentry into metropolis airspace until the time that she's there to witness nods final moments she travels from Ground Zero to the train station which is apparent blocks away honestly I think this is simply a minor and forgivable continuity are simple is that if you force me to dig in my heels and explain it some aspect of what we are seeing has to be unreliable so you have a couple of options either the distance was deceptively far but actually immediate word the fight was cut down but actually took longer with unseen portions or of though it's implied that the fireballs crossing the sky include's odd and Superman that's just satellite debris and the kryptonian's actually land immediately next Ground Zero though Lois tracking that is offscreen we can get even more ridiculous and say that a speedster delivered Lois without explanation out none of those are particularly satisfying answers but if you take the time element out of it it's not too hard to explain how Lois ended up train station even if she couldn't see them crash land into it as the debris falls the sky the film shows the planet always turn to watch it you get the reaction shot of their faces they lived in metropolis all their lives they know it's streets and its layout like the back of their hands and Lois could tell that was headed approximately for the station and so she began to go that way and as she neared the area she could see the surrounding damage and the people streaming out and she know that she has the right location of these answers the one that I think has the most merit is the possibility that there are portions of the fight that are cut out and that's because Batman be Superman includes rumors that suggests that some of the film will take place perspective of Bruce Wayne in metropolis at the time fight and in order for him to have time to have reaction action during. The length and duration of the fight may have to be extended to accommodate that story of course the fact that Lois shows up at the right time in the right place leads the next criticism in question which is his Lois to convenient and I think we've addressed a lot of those issue with our earlier questions but it does appear that she gets the benefit of a lot of coincidence but to me is nothing that story or reality break you know humans are notoriously bad at estimating likelihood and coincidence we routinely find even mathematically probable offense astonishing discount actual event as fiction because were bad engaging the convergence of that's one common example that I can use of how reality differs from our intuition is the birthday problem sometimes called birthday paradox and that sets forth that in a room 23 people the chance of two of them sharing the same birthday is above 50% now I think of already bored you to tears with the legal mumbo-jumbo the start of this episode so I'm good a spare you the Mathis but it was the basis of a computer game that I developed in my undergraduate studies so if you let me I'd probably ramble on this for hours I'm not can do that nonetheless we can argue that it's a filmmakers job to be attuned to our intuition and are inclination everybody's going to draw their own line what their own subjective tolerance level is for contrivance that enables the story for me Man of Steel doesn't cross it but I can see how it might for some so the answer to whether Lois is to convenient is frankly subjective and it's good to come down to you rather than the film if you Google historical coincidences and add some adjective like amazing astonishing extraordinary were mind blowing to your search you may read some stories which might increase your tolerance for fictional coincidence based on its possibility and perhaps prevalence in reality and so another question is whether Lois has now shall we say edge some might use unkind or ungracious ways to describe the same I don't think cruelty is inherent in the character and optimistic to the word edge but I think you know I mean I think Lois has it the Lois that were given has a handed her own rescue and she chose to kryptonian in self-defense this Lois stands up to Col. Hardy sheets subverts Perry's authority she resists military interrogation she is fearless before Pharaoh and thought like we said before she kills two in self-defense and she briefly fights off a kryptonian and then she volunteers to go on a dangerous mission to help save humanity can have a character that is strong brave and have edge without being unpleasant irritating petty or insulting and so I think this is an admirable take on Lois and this is a refreshing take on Lois who still edgy and a role model without having some of that negative character that some may traditionally expect from the character of Lois so one of the things people always bring up is the fact that this Lois has red hair and I think were going to revisit this topic and this territory specifically as it pertains to wonder what so I'm not can address it here and now except to say that we've had redheaded Lois lanes in the past and I personally despite having a love towards all humankind have a particular weakness for redheads hung those lines I'm going to limit my gushing about Amy Adams were talking about a gorgeous talented five-time Academy award nominee she's a mother she's whip smart got admirable values and like much of the cast apparently Superman she has ties to nation servicemen with her limited screen time Lois is a more real character than a caricature and so I think with Man of Steel alone she hasn't quite become that iconic Lois but with Batman be Superman and her already cast for justice league and the inevitable role she's got a play in subsequent standalone Superman films I have no doubt that she's got a get there so obviously one of the biggest changes in Man of Steel compared to some of the more traditional versions is what happened to the love triangle and no I love all of super by love much of Superman and I and I I course enjoy renditions that involve the trying as of his many things to recommend and suggested there's good think about the triangle a couple of things that will go over our there's tradition and it's what we know it's what were familiar with but you have to sort of note that the emphasis on the triangle at least recently tends to be a more modern invention Clark used to take a backseat during some of the Silver age and as many as we today may disagree with the kill Bill monologue and the analysis it was appropriate from the perspective of an elderly bill at that point in time given his age so when I say tradition I'm talking about our tradition as modern readers in this era another thing you get from the triangle is the symbolism the idea of bad dual identity with something secret and special inside which would be adored if only you could let it out right that the object of your affection would end does love you when you let that something special out and there's something powerful about that idea of the hidden secret special person within each and every one of us certainly you get drama with the triangle you get a lot of angst and possible amazement out of the trying to the reveal is always a huge an emotional and historical moment in any version of a retelling of Superman and certainly there is value in that drama but I think the biggest of the most important thing in one of the reasons that may be were very attached to the trying is the length the triangle and perhaps you can tie that to the drama essentially allows the relationship to grow in all these kind of hyper overdramatic stages first you have that infatuation and then you have that tension due to secret send danger you have the reveal and then you have a honeymoon stage and then a mature relationship and so it's a good dynamic for longform serial storytelling and that's why it's ideal for the soap opera of TV and comics Man of Steel we can take that has its own benefits and one of the big benefits of course is the rationality okay we have something that is an authentic reality and in that Lois gets to be a more realized person she isn't blinded she isn't lacking in judgment and she isn't subjected to some unrealistic trope so now were dealing with something this more authentic and rational real the relationship itself can be based in truth and so you don't have live you have less drama but you have more honesty and integrity and one of the ongoing sort of paradox is that we have to reconcile with those sort of longform soap opera versions of Superman is how we esteem him as a character who was always honest never lies we uphold as forthright and having integrity had in some cases he says he never lies and yet he spends his whole life lying and the lies proud hurting and harming his loved ones and so Man of Steel sidesteps that issue by allowing them to have authentic truthful relationships certainly Man of Steel's approach is more original it's a new take that's fresh and so it's the flip side of tradition tradition is comforting it something that we know but at the same time you can get old and so now we have an opportunity something you think different get a different take touch a different angle a relationship and those things can develop and have its own valuable and interesting a tradition to develop over time the Man of Steel approach gives us a partnership in a triangle where two thirds of it are occupied by the same man it's really all about Superman here were making Lois a partner in the identity and it becomes much more a tale of equals rather than something that is self-centered on just the man knows all these things that I'm mentioning and so with things like truthfulness and rationality offenses city and partnership could also get maturity so there is value to the symbolism of that inner person that needs them out but that is ultimately somewhat of a juvenile parable a person that he's to come out person with untapped potential is still undeveloped and not mature but in this case Clark is a full grown adult and he's already shown such level of transparency and communication and those kind of things means that we can dive into a more mature relationship rather than sort of degree high school flirting it back and forth and he said she said those things that serve precipitate drama actually might've said with the trying and so with all of that we get speed and so we get a relationship that can go faster and get to the good stuff in a plausible way and in a way that is suitable for film where we don't have a whole Lotta time to develop these things and so I think Man of Steel is in the one and only true approach but is a completely valid and justifiable approach. Now looking forward want to know in what kind of role will Lois Lane playing going forwards and in Batman be Superman I suspect should be playing relatively a large role so far this seems to be reflected by the fact that from all the set photos we seen she's never very far from Superman if we talk about some of the rumors surrounding the other Trinity members where Batman is a veteran and wonder woman mortal than Clark is still technically the rookie but how can he be a chairman or first amongst equals has to have some source of authority and I think that could be his power but I think it may also come from his moral authority and Lois is the key to that Lois more than any other character is Superman embracing humanity Clark was able to wander away from the farm and for Martha but I don't think the same could be said about him in relation to Lois now ironically despite Batman being the only actual human Trinity his emotional detachment and his pragmatism dehumanizes him and Superman may relate to the human condition better and that serves as his assertion of moral authority amongst the Trinity and amongst the league for lack of a better term you could almost say that Lois is Superman's heart and so bite actually humanizing and embodying his heart it places somebody in a position of authority in the Trinity with a heart that he wears honestly on escape everyone it turned that phrase let's look at justice league so for justice league we know that Lois is cast but with such a large ensemble she necessarily has to play a smaller role in a be difficult to give her a relevant role but nonetheless her casting establishes that Superman's supporting cast and his world building in his connective tissue is the most salient at this time you'll notice that Lois is contracted in cast for justice league but not yet Alford and so after the justice league films we may have standalone Superman films and that's exciting because after all the world building was accomplished and after all the time has passed have all the room in the world to delve into a deeper more mature relationship Lois Clark contrast this against what we had before which tended to be childish infatuation gravely adult depression and him talking about your daughter films and then on the flipside Superman returns where Superman doesn't get girl here were able to get Superman pass the honeymoon stage but not smack Superman with the impotence of not being able to be with or have the love of his life of course as were talking about future projects down the line the specter of ageism could be raised under the table that along with the haircolor issue and future wonder what discussions will talk about it then so this episode could be times better because Amy Adams a press junket for timber they guys has started talk a little bit about her role in Batman be Superman to play some clips from her collider and coming soon.net interviews and I'm going to give my Russians at some of you are so close to have a will is is is is still sort of the key to the information he has Chicago native they are putting it together will help keep the bond leave to avoid is there is a muscles in my going very short is true that is what is something I had really long as you know is is is is is is is an extremely fit, he is definitely coming to bring on the Xanax character who is a callous and his cabinet balance for the work ally was is is is is you don't think that's reality actually turned out if we traditionally in the we actually many as you think of the political will what can I said I'd love love love Amy Adams and her ability to handle these questions which harm and grace it something that all actors on a big franchise film have to do when promoting their other works but it's not something that every actor can handle with equal poise and she's just a great ambassador for the craft felt I pray I hope Terrio gives her some opportunities to really show her tackling so Amy affirms what we've already discussed above she has a role in this and moreover she talks about the camaraderie onset and she seems to be describing a bit of an expository role again but I expect Adams to behave to elevated like she did in Man of Steel again I love Man of Steel but it's sparse on dialogue and so a relies heavily on the performances to give effect to what few lines each actor has and the cast of Man of Steel was more than up to the task I'm happy that Adams confirms that at least for Batman be Superman there's no contest for Superman's affections and never doubted for a second that they'd avoid that degenerative catfight but it's nice to have confirmation from the actors mouth last but not least is the spoiler laden report claiming its source to be a preproduction script drafted by Terrio a month before principal shoot self I consider this to be spoiler heavy so not can a discuss it until the end of the podcast of you know what here any spoilers you cut out early if you want to hear the discussion stick around until after the after all these rumors are preempting our regularly scheduled mailbag also work in a be on holiday schedules our next episode is not going to be until 2015 so I'm Merry Christmas and a happy new year to you and yours in the new year with a start tackle those really big controversies so look forward so that aren't I think I've rambled on long enough Man of Steel answers insight commentary is a proud member of the Superman podcast network so here are some promos for the network shows that I suggest you check out if you want to extend your enjoyment of the Superman mythos got it together from the far reaches of beings that are assembled and that's what got dedicated to the bust greatest superhero is covered Superman like featuring Superman: the DC comics crisis is Superman podcast is Superman this you will podcast is Superman forever and about the you you you you are you will podcast KL from Superman homepage.com is John Wilson really help you are leaving my present bat your retailer Michael they start to Sam result is the original Mario is given by an highlighted I gave Younis and how has Gotti they because that what thanks so much soliciting I just love discussing the stuff been sticking with me hopefully you do to continually grateful for each and every listener and hope you join us Man of Steel answers.com that way you got questions you want answered insights you want to share commentary to make composing the comments for all your like-minded apologist or you can email me@mosaicManofSteelofSteelanswers.com if you like what you heard please review the show in iTunes and subscribed this is Dr. awkward your DC cinematic universe apologist signing off CNX time will welcome to the spoiler section I said mail back was preempted but I'll make exception for this question which seems oddly appropriate it's by Teutonic or Teutonic last a while back what's with the out from music and basically if you don't recognize it it is an instrumental version of Leroux's bulletproof so bulletproof Superman get it okay I'm not really a music I but somebody pick the music for me and I appreciate it so as far as rumors go I think if you listen to the podcast you know I always leaned toward skepticism and I'm reluctant to propagator discuss unsubstantiated rumors and even more reticent to talk about them if either their complete fiction seem very sketchy or if there source against the studios will is one thing if the studio intended the leak or if there filming on location knowing that set photos or can again out but it's another thing and information comes from a source who is expected and contracted to hold information in confidence and then they either implicitly or illegally obtained or distributed the information in this latter case were knock talking about a leak who's acting under whistleblower ethics were talking about an unauthorized breach over piece of entertainment now all that said the information is out there so I'm going to talk about it but only as hypothetical prompts even the article publishing these details hedges by saying the script is not the final shooting script and I'm sure you're aware that things get tweaked and changed even on the day of the shoot so first my overall impression is that there's nothing in here that breaks the movie for me in fact I'm dangerously close to being biased towards this rumor has it tends to affirm many of the things that the show and my website are about pretending that these rumors are true let's see what lines up with our production so far first that this is a Man of Steel SQL in a Superman heavy film next that Lois and Clark's relationship is serious and that they lived together the film continues to explore the realistic implications of Superman and therefore the past is relevant to the future Superman's past actions great jeopardy going forwards in general Swan Lake sees Superman as an ally the world generally embraces Superman and the article even characterizes Batman as quote unquote cautious rather than condemning the only sticking point is the alleged dialogue but we don't have the context or the delivery imagine that you are told flatly that this occurs in Man of Steel what was I supposed to do just let them die maybe if we were told Jonathan can's response glibly we wouldn't have Kevin Costner's performance we wouldn't see the worry the hesitation and the subsequent comfort we wouldn't have young Clark's pain in his confusion the lines proposed in the rumor or blunt and confronting but they still may see development and like I said there lacking context and delivery so let's parse out some of those details and why they may naturally flow from the Man of Steel what are reactions are first there's the aspect that this is a sequel I'm surprised at how many people came away from Man of Steel expecting it to be the sum total Superman story and experience it was a complete story and a film don't get me wrong but is clearly only the start of Superman story a lot of the criticisms and the complaints about the film seem to stem from that expectation and holding Man of Steel to standards of a fully seasoned and established paragon now to be fair if you had been doing nothing but consuming Superman media leading up to the film the bulk of that employs the hero at his pinnacle so you would of had skewed expectations going in if you're reading stories like All-Star Superman kingdom come Superman is at the end of his career in a final and great hurrah only to be confronted with the novice in Man of Steel or even if you went back and watched Superman returns there again you have a terminal story the could almost be retitled the death of Lois and Clark however it was always clear to me that this was the beginning of Superman's larger and continuing story and in order for a universe to be built a degree of continuity must exist as a that's why it's great to hear that this is very much a sequel now second we are told that this will be a Superman heavy film and I've already done an episode in a video on this I think you know my position on that Superman heavy film is great news because he gets Superman into the position that he needs to be for the justice league and justifying the justice league opens up the whole DCC you third were told that some time has passed and to me this is a huge relief because there is so much housekeeping and logistics to get you from Man of Steel to a Superman most of that however doesn't make for compelling storytelling filmmaking by approaching the story in media read as we get right to it today's contemporary audiences have completely acclimated to flashbacks and time skips and are more than willing to fill in the blanks with the clues that we half rather than being required to be spoonfed a bunch a dry logistics and if you're like me the puzzle of figuring it all out is fascinating and engaging on entirely different level all on its own I'm glad to get right into a Superman story and I'm anticipating having a lot of fun to try to connect the dots from Man of Steel to Batman be Superman forth were told that Lois and Clark are living together will this episode covered pretty thoroughly why I believe that they'd be beyond the infatuation in the Donner films and so this will be the first time on film that we see the two in a serious committed relationship that isn't just flirtation or some awkward stocking I'm sure that you all have that friend or maybe your that person whose life was completely transformed for the better once they have a real significant other for the audience members that didn't quite get Superman's changing disposition at the end of Man of Steel the two of them being together in Batman be Superman should hopefully help make that change more intuitive to them now if the to live together it's implicit that they are probably a public couple as well now far be it from me to judge modern metropolitan roommate situations like these which could be platonic but I think it's fair to say that the former is more probable and more likely than the latter cohabiting couple seems much more likely than platonic odd couple it will be interesting to see how if they address the interaction of this with the secret identity especially if Superman also seems to have public ties to Lois fifth were told that Clark would rather be reporting on Batman will this illustrates that Clark hasn't unrealistically been promoted to a senior journalist able to pick and choose his assignments as he will in his short time as a reporter it perhaps calls into question his initial motive for becoming a reporter if he's put on assignments that don't allow him access to the people in danger or in need the way that this is worded it appears that Batman's existence is known at least to a degree and to a certain extent it makes sense that Clark would want to know if there are others out there like himself six it's claimed that Superman helps Lois out in the middle east this shows that there continuing with Lois almost as a war correspondent goes where the story is even if it's dangerous if true I'm in favor of the international implications because a its realistic and be it provides justification for Superman's main jurisdiction being the United States and metropolis I have nothing against Superman being a global hero but traditionally Superman stories take place in or around metropolis and US soil disproportionately compared to other locales and so that's what I like seeing him and I don't mind seeing Spiderman on the Congo River Batman in the Sahara desert on occasion but I prefer them in the respective cities and so is the same for Superman from the you can completely understand why China wouldn't want Superman over their airspace and why the international community or even the US may ask Superman to limit his jurisdiction and why Superman may agree in order to limit international conflict the flip side of this is that the justice league will likely serve as a means to increase that jurisdiction so we don't have to worry about Superman not being a global hero in the big picture seventh were told that Superman tells a villain that he's not going to break his neck but he loses his cool and then threatens to break his back out without context and performance I don't think it's fair to judge the dialogue but we can approach it as a logic and consistency issue like we've been doing with all these other rumors and from that perspective I don't necessarily have a problem with it's odds death was significant it's reasonable that the issue could be an is raised again rather than being swept under the rug there regarding Superman's temper on one hand there is a certain amount of precedence for it but on the other hand I'd like to see him grow a thicker skin but once again we don't have the context so we don't know how he could be pushed to make such a threat this might be the only thing that I have a slight negative gut reaction to but even there I have faith villain just spit bawling but one reconciliation of the dialogue is if the big bad described in the article is actually Batman whose goal is to push Superman's binds and test the limits of the aliens patients the article casts Batman as cautious not condemning in somebody with Batman's inclinations would be justifiably concerned that Superman's record of heroism could be tested and cracked the irony world Batman has probably come right up to that edge many times himself in his own career say nothing of this country bumpkin with godlike powers so what if Batman at the end of his career and his usefulness to humanity sets out for one last death wish of the mission to see if this Superman is the genuine article or if he's just an alien Apocalypse entire it waiting to happen Batman makes it his mission with prep time to annoy the Man of Steel to the breaking point to see if Superman will or could kill again and slide down that slippery slope towards despotism in other words Batman is trying to get Superman to kill him in that context Superman threatening to break Batman's back after being pushed to the brink by the Batman with prep time perhaps for example tricking him into believing that Lois is dead or harmed that is hand it becomes plausible excusable and a nod to the comics Superman with his hands wrapped around Batman's throat wanting to but not killing Batman would be a crazy inversion of the dark Knight returns while preserving both characters you can hear the line Clark in all the years to come in your most private moments I want you to remember your hand at my throat I want you to remember the one man who beat you accept just like dark Knight returns he doesn't beat him because Superman doesn't kill Batman Superman passes the test and hopefully he forgives Batman for his insane methods and then in the third act they move onto the next threat working together this allows the logical conclusion of Superman winning the battle winning the moral test but it also lets Batman throw everything he can it Superman and by bringing Superman up to the brink it up to that moment it's sort of a victory for Batman as well in that he was able to test the alien the come away with an ally in a fellow hero now eight were told that Swan Lake perceive Superman is a hero and that Superman will stem the tide of collateral in a recent blog post I talk about the point of the drone seen which explains why Swan Lake and Superman are likely allies we touched a little bit on this in the secret identity episode and so it makes perfect sense to me as far Superman avoiding collateral damage I don't see it as a direct rebuttal to Man of Steel but simply as a progression of Superman with more experience in a threat that allows for such consideration now regarding the dialogue itself of the first to my earlier statements of how we lack context and we lack delivery ninth were told that the world generally regard Superman as a hero and that's consistent with what he did in Man of Steel in our analysis throughout the show and the website I appreciate that because irrespective of what the critics are saying outside the film and what they may think their views shouldn't necessarily compromise the reality of the fictional world now from the perspective of a critic like the individual who publish these rumors he may see in frame parts of the script as addressing his concerns but that may simply be a biased attention towards these things that he believes are issues rather than their importance or the delivery in the film itself tend and finally were told that doomsday is in this film and I have mixed feelings about this I should start off by saying that I like doomsday but in small doses not really a fan because he tends to lack dimension to me doomsday always seem like a bit of a walking plot device I don't discount his role in epic Superman story arcs but that's about it I think many of the objections to his use are because he is so strongly tied to an associated with the death of Superman the mind is immediately drawn to that event it significance and then it creates an expectation along those lines which doesn't seem to fit with this Superman's second silver screen outing however as doomsday is a plot device actually makes for something of a perfect disposable super villain his back story and his characterization are almost irrelevant since he really is just a dragon to slay his nature means that he isn't necessarily wasted and he could returned if deemed compelling enough personally I think any dreams or ideas that the death of Superman will appear cinematically should be disavowed I think it's clear that they want to do original stories and the death the Superman isn't readily adapted and somewhat contravenes the spirit of building up the DC cinematic universe and the life of Superman so I'm not worried about using up doomsday's debut on Batman be Superman my concern about doomsday comes from his origin is that lack thereof now depending on the execution I might be a little bit disappointed doomsday is the product of kryptonian technology and human hands only because were making Superman the sole-source of court unquote magic in this universe which is quickly going to expand to include cyborgs and speedsters and Amazons and Atlantean as far as depth is concerned I'm not worried so long as the rest of the film delivers the avengers essentially spent no time on the Qatari and yet it was a satisfying superhero experience so Batman be Superman may find it's character moments and depth elsewhere I don't know that parsing my concerns really means anything it's more of a gut reaction and in order to do this episode and research Lois I did go back through the older Superman films and something about doomsday with Luther behind him summons to mind uncomfortable parallels with the quest for peace with a story about the real world implications of Superman internationally a mostly mindless monster with no depth sourced from kryptonian genetic material and manipulated by Lex Luther I shudder to think however these are merely fears and worries for just one point when compared to the great weight of good news that this report alleges in fact imagine if I drew some of the same parallels between Man of Steel and Superman to and in fact I could've had the same or similar issues and in fact I did I believe I have some post back from 2011 or 2012 was worried about how to kryptonian's facing off would be boring cousin prizefight's styles make fights in other words the difference in style makes for more entertaining and interesting fights will I needed have been worried because not only did they find a way to have different styles was odd lacking flight for part of the fight but it was definitely entertaining even if all we have at this point are broad strokes for this report so far I like the picture that's being painted so that's it for this episode it's a little oversized but hopefully it will hold you over during the holidays when we returned be tackling those big controversies any new DCC you news and of course your mail back questions Merry Christmas and see you in 2015