Man of Steel answers insight commentary episode 16 the Amazon and the Atlantean I will ask the obvious question start asking questions and answers welcome to Man of Steel answers insight commentary on your DC cinematic universe apologist Dr. awkward I cover a mosaic of topics for fans who love discussing the Man of Steel and the DCC you together will endeavor to answer the questions criticisms and controversies raised by those eagerly anticipating the DC cinematic universe in this episode were covering Aquaman and wonder woman costumes and casting kryptonian's and magic this podcast dives deep into Man of Steel to answer the critics and the confused the show is not meant to convert anybody but the celebrate a film that will lead us into the DC cinematic universe reasonable minds will differ but this is a show for fans who love to Man of Steel and who love to chew their food will hey folks this is a Man of Steel DCC you podcast but it's an awesome time to be alive if you are a superhero fan doubtless by now you've heard the Spiderman deal between Sony pictures and Marvel Studios daredevil on Netflix is around the corner and we've had epic episodes of the flash and other DC TV that's all other podcast where you continue with our scene by scene commentary of Man of Steel break them up occasionally with broader DCC you or Superman topics like today's show there's a lot of little suicide squad stories bubbling about that I want to tackle but I just can't contain my excitement about Zack Snyder tweeting out our first look at Aquaman you know you've already seen but for posterity on February 20 1 AM in the morning EST Zack delivered the image with the line there is only one true King #you night the seven this is by no means an exhaustive examination that I was already planning a wonder woman episode and this came down the line and there were just too many parallels between the two to ignore so on Frankenstein in my reactions and recollections of Aquaman with some of what I had prepared wonder woman will see how far we get quickly I just want to make some meta-commentary about new media marketing now I barely understand twitter as is but even I get that this is the way of the world right now there's no press release no trade report no formal announcement nuclear attachment to any other piece of traditional media or event instead the director just drops a piece of content directly to the people at 1 AM in the morning on social media I mention this only did temper expectations that a teaser or a trailer or that next piece of media must be tied to any particular film release certainly that was tradition but it's no longer the rule I was prepping for a court hearing the next morning and around 2 AM I started getting messages from my friends to check online and there was had to concentrate on what I was doing so I was a little bit torrent but I was probably distracted for a good 20 minutes before getting back to work so who knows when that next bit of promotion is going to strike without fanfare so before we get into the image first let's get into that text there is only one true King maybe Zack is speaking purely spontaneously as some do with Twitter but I can't help but to be inclined to believe that phrase is laden with meeting first that this Aquaman is a king to be a king you must have a kingdom and so we can have a degree of confidence that Atlantis is a part of the DCC you even if you never doubted that let's not take it for granted by his very appearance we know that the DCC you is open to interpretation and adaptation and not necessarily beholden to tradition for example one of the ways that you could write around those hidden worlds or supernatural beings proceeding Superman was to have Aquaman be created by the impact of the world engine in the Indian ocean similarly one of the ways to explain the Amazons is if they were kryptonian in origin however that Aquaman is a king over a kingdom would suggest a more traditional approach to the character now second that Aquaman is a king makes him royalty again let's not take things for granted there are versions of Aquaman where he is an undersea vigilante superhero but lays no claim to the throne of Atlantis and here we get his Royal highness third only one true King suggest that there are contenders and pretenders to the crown that is there are those who what became or others who are false as opposed to true King's if die genic Lee within the story than the fight for the throne may be a central aspect of the story of course that reason the issue of whether Snyder is even talking to hygienically for all we know he may be saying or speaking creatively with respect to some crown or kingship outside the film universe like saying Jason Moloch is the one and only person who could and body rule and reign over this portrayal of Aquaman so he's the one true King of being Aquaman alternatively he is the one true King within the justice league now if Aquaman is royalty he shares that in common with the tradition of wonder woman Princess to the Queen of the Amazons and it puts them in good company with the nobility of Superman and Batman Superman is ostensibly a kryptonian noblemen and billionaire Batman is an American aristocrat the Emerald night and the mercurial messenger fill out this pantheon but we can see perhaps a risk of distance or stratification in the league if it isn't reminded to be humble and that's again where Superman's character can shine is arguably one of the league's most powerful members he carries himself like royalty with the heart of a peasant as wonder woman once quipped Aquaman has often had ties to authority and legend has in King Arthur's Court the Roundtable etc. perhaps the definitive single retelling of King Arthur's tale is teach whites the once and future King published in 1958 Kurt Dusek wrote an Aquaman reboot in 2006 collected as the sort of Atlantis once and future and during the 2003 reboot Aquaman's hook hand was replaced by a magical water hand by the Lady of the Lake and the only one true King may be a way of invoking the once and future King phraseology in the sense that the king who was and is to be is the one and only true King with all others paling in comparison obviously we don't know but it's food for thought for six little words and from six words to three with a focus on seven the #and the tagline prominently posted over the image you night the seven the ambiguity is the light fully maddening and exactly what a teaser image like this should be the seven the seven what the sees the justice league or the magnificent 77 artifacts seven what what does unite mean and who is doing it is Aquaman doing the uniting or is he being united is this in story or out it's powerfully suggestive but just vague enough to let your imagination run a little wild which is why it's such an effective teaser I think the prevailing theory now is that the seven are the justice league and that the unite refers to what the story will do to bring them together rather than Aquaman being the one to unite the seven most longtime fans probably know that the original lineup in the first villain that the jail a faced off against on that infamous cover was Green Lantern Aquaman Martian man Hunter the flash and wonder woman facing off against star of the giant alien starfish conspicuously absent from that cover where the world's finest Superman and Batman but nonetheless there on the team and within the story itself a little less commonly recalled is that the first appearance of the jail late was not justice league number one but the brave and the bold issue number 28 this lineup was also the primary composition of the JL a during Grant Morrison's epic 41 issue run beginning in 1997 for the DC cinematic universe the composition appears to be the same safer cyborg taken the place of Martian man Hunter but back to the tweet let's not completely dismiss the idea of the seven seas know what's fascinating about that phrase is that it is profoundly ancient and yet persistent Wikipedia dates the earliest reference as far back is 2300 BC in assume Marion him from Mesopotamia as the ancient phrase move through the ages would always mean different bodies of water but the idea that something so ancient literally still being used to this day while completely taken for granted is right and fertile ground for hidden or secret knowledge buried within the phrase a reference to something so long and forgotten is completely fitting of the lost Kingdom like Atlantis imagine that we've all been speaking about Atlantis for the past 4000 years without even realizing it well perhaps the seven refer to artifacts of power prominently displayed in the picture is Aquaman's magic weapon the so-called trident of Neptune despite its five prongs it doesn't take much to imagine that within the rich world of DC six other artifacts of comparable power like the helm of Naboo or the claw of Horace the scarab the lasso of truth and so on but let's get to the look the first thing I was struck with was the intensity of the straight on stare which is why I think a lot of people immediately thought that Cal Drago was staring right back at them this is someone to take seriously in that moment but personally I actually got a bit more of a Ronin decks abide from his Stargate Atlantis role perhaps because of the big hair and in Stargate Atlantis he sported those massive droughts the next thing that immediately stood out to me where the tats the Polynesian inspired tattoos that play to mama was casting but also as a rich layer of real world culture to the DCC use Atlantean's I can't pretend that I'm well-versed in Polynesian culture but my limited exposure to it has always captured my imagination with the exhaustive behind the scenes extras that accompanied the Lord of the rings trilogy we got a look into the Maori tribe and culture the indigenous people of New Zealand in 2002 will writer gave us another look and it was always bits and pieces of it here and there and to bits and pieces of it here and there the culture of the folklore and their masks seemed just as rich while being fresh and distinct from more familiar mythological traditions like ancient Greek dramatic authority and Celtic Norse Chinese or Arabian speaking of which I've got to recommend a short speculative fiction story dramatically read by grand stone in episode 18 of starship sofa a long-running sci-fi short fiction podcast the story is called short God versus octopus God by Jeff VanderMeer and he just has that flavor of Polynesian mythology than a play a short excerpt that who work at the take many shapes the enjoyed the shape of shock the best in those early days if the same as his aspirations when Deco a ruckus what of the fish he would give a big bloody to the smile and say one more home still hungry, and shot God give many more than that half-full Dr. Walker was he still wanted at least one more fish this may Deco like a dangerous it also made him foolish sometimes when Deco what the was bored he would take human form in human form he was a handsome told.idea with gleaming white tea hopefully that gave you a taste the story is may be about 30 minutes long it episode 18 of starship sofa up a link up in the show notes for you to check out what the reason that I'm so excited about Atlantis potentially being tied to Polynesian culture is that it grounds a fantastic thing in the DCC you to something in our reality and that was used to pretty great effect in Disney's Atlantis the lost Empire in 2001 borrowing heavily from my an entire bedroom influences using Polynesian influences may present us with something technically alien but yet feeling properly like an undiscovered part of this world something that's harder to achieve if you design without grounding your influences to something in this world that automatically ups the richness and the authenticity of anything that you design the need be had to go through the effort of imagining everything from scratch like they painstakingly achieved with Man of Steel's krypton alternatively perhaps Atlantis is a global melting pot with influences and citizens hailing from all corners of the planet and only Aquaman is strongly influenced by Polynesian culture and that has potential to but nonetheless but nonetheless Polynesian culture will be important to the character and his film the tattoos are filled with symbolism and meeting which you can look up and read for yourself in printed interviews I think of that hold off until we can get an audio clip of an interview so that you can hear him explain them himself so after I took in what was so unique and cultural about his luck I started to appreciate how much of it was like the comics now granted Aquaman has a long history and in his 74 years is most common appearance was short blonde hair clean-shaven and an orange shirt with green pants and gloves with that stylized a emblem for a belt buckle however after crisis of infinite earths in 1985 and a failed reboot Peter David began an epic Aquaman run in the 90s who sported the look that clearly inspired the most costume which is featured in Bruce Thames justice league animated series that Aquaman sported long hair a beard asymmetrical armor and a Hulk hand that was also the Aquaman featured in more since epic jail a run and so that was the Aquaman that I was the most familiar with and as I grew to enjoys chemistry playing off the other team members that appreciation would lead me to eventually enjoyed his entire modern series up until the curb you sick reboot nothing against it per se it just seem like a good jumping off point eventually I go back and enjoy some of the precrisis Aquaman be at the Detroit league or Aquaman was chairman but that's another story so this design organically matches the character and if it's right alongside the Trinity that we've already seen they've designed to costume appropriate for the actor and for the world rather than trying to shoehorn mama lock into that bright orange and green I know were talking about the costume but let me just make a quick tangent on casting which I'm sure will revisit later in the DCC you but I am a fan of Jason the mullah going well back to the guilty pleasure that his Baywatch Hawaii there's no question that he can play a ruthless warrior but if you seen him in any other performance or offscreen you know that he's always ready to being that charming toothy smile and in his Atlantis role despite being a tough guy he was frequently allowed to drop humorous one-liners and biting sarcasm which is to say there is room and range for quips and humor with this actor and with a serious warrior take on Aquaman and for those more inclined to the Batman brave and the bold outrageous Aquaman I wouldn't say that this image precludes that entirely the recent DC direct to video animated feature justice league the throne of Atlantis wasn't Aquaman centric story adapting to new 52 reboot yet even it's serious straightfaced version pays homage to that the loved outrageous take on Aquaman it will be interesting to see if that Paul Drennan or shoulder armor in the arm armor are functional or purely cultural and decorative in other words is this Aquaman so durable that the armor doesn't really add to these defenses there's absolutely nothing wrong with cultural dress or costume and I think that was one of the best rationalizations for Superman's costume is introduced in birthright the prominence of the crest the color schemes and the general design of their clothing drove and inspired a Superman's costume and birthright to me that's a perfect rationale for wearing something that otherwise doesn't jive with social norms I don't question the yarmulke or a job or headscarf rosary or turban because I know that they pertain to their cultures just like I don't necessarily question met ties or heels because fashion is cultural I think Man of Steel did a good job in showing an overall design is culturally consistent but perhaps it didn't explain the colors as well is birthright did however with Aquaman and wonder woman we have an opportunity to really reinforce that rationale that they're not oddballs wearing abnormal costumes but merely strangers in a strange land wearing what is normal to them I'm not necessarily saying that I want the narrative to be a fish out of water know upon intended story but even if they are fully savvy of American fashion norms wearing your cultures clothing can be a statement as it was in Man of Steel who despite being raised human wanted to proudly proclaim his heritage in his public debut he was beaming and busting with pride about his people it's not an S on my world right Aquaman and wonder woman should be no less proud of their people and their cultures but what do I know about fashion let's hear from somebody who does the costume designer Michael Wilkinson his credits include skyhigh 300 watchmen Tron Legacy sucker punch and in 2013 he was nominated for an Academy award for his work on American hustle these next two clips are red carpet interviews from the wraps 2014 Oscar party it I have thought about it but I've ever have thought I heard he is God really always I had and that I have I wanted a new one element of him wanting a very you don't like about that I have is not a and right you will romance Younis and what is I know you probably can't get away comedic ~what is your thought process going into one woman that has been done and so on is really like area affected for the ride in the head on the train and the you know what I think what I do look at the history of how the characters they presented on the screen comic book that aside I will know I will refined way to wonder woman the relevant today the he fighting is is the major run the in line love you and that is hundred is what I'm redesigning the new Superman and Batman film to react I am every Friday five yet undecided in the back third were coming along very well where having hammered at the amount is unable to having a opportunity divine the new wonder woman has to you the level of the whole of it has to do they really I'm to do everyone I know you believe iconic figure you really wanted to just like the a lot of recess how to the trade over the ages I'm overly homesick come up with a series of really reverberate with modern audiences and what materials are using may not be moving around a lot and I mean is that a microphone is superhero question did you really get to explore the forefront of technology are doing or using a lot of digital technology where you are using manner as a 3-D printer is out of the adult in a very or really really know it was another clip and challenging audio where Wilkinson talks about iterating costumes with each appearance and that led me to reflect on the Aquaman reveal is this the furthest out that we've seen an actor in costume from the opening of their announced solo film it nothing moves Aquaman is slated for a release in summer of 2018 or over five years from now if there are any other contenders that beat that definitely let me know in the comments or by email what's interesting about that besides being insanely far out is that you can bet there will be tweaks and iterations on the costume each appearance obviously to fully monetize the merchandising but also to keep the filmmakers creatively inspired moreover those tweaks can react to public perception the people love it they can embrace it if they're not fans than they can move slowly away five years is a lot of time to get Aquaman just right for his solo films it's a luxury that all the justice league members except one woman will have allowing adjustments and tweaks from Batman be Superman to justice league to their solo films wonder woman won't have that time because she begins shooting this fall which is consistent with the timetables set by suicide squad starting shooting this spring April to be exact speaking about wonder woman let's talk a little bit about her so I don't intend to exhaustively cover everything about the costume but thought I'd just stick to apologetics on two things the heels and the skirt namely whether the heels are plausible and why is it wonder woman wearing pants before I tried to justify their plausibility let's just start with tradition the fact is in her first appearance inside the pages of All-Star comics number eight in 1941 that very same image being the basis of her first cover appearance in sensation comics number one in 1942 wonder woman was in heels wonder woman was in heels on the cover of Ms. magazine number one in 1971 Linda Carter were heels from 1975 to 1979 before millions of viewers in nearly 60 episodes each in our long and the same for the unpaired but widely viewed NBC 2011 pilot starring Adrienne public he across 13 years nine seasons and hundred and nine episodes of super friends wonder woman had heels she also had heels in Bruce tends justice league which spanned by seasons and 91 episodes from 2001 to 2006 I will note that in the 2009 direct to video wonder woman animated feature she does not wear heels and there are some Asterix to everything that I said above but we'll get to that soon all and getting it is that so far is tradition is concerned it is reasonably considered a traditional part of her costume perhaps it's not practical or a good idea but it is tradition consistent with Superman's cape or Batman's Cal with the exposed jaw may be that's enough reason to keep and maintain the tradition maybe not just food for thought not can a try to pretend that heels or more accurately wedges and cadets case are practical but my attempted apologetics is going to try to justify them as culturally plausible the fact is that fashion and culture isn't purely practical or utilitarian that certainly holds true in modern culture for heels and neckties now there are many tellings and histories explaining their origins and endurance of the following is the most concise explanation that I could find it covered both by Kevin Liber hosted the YouTube channel the sauce to she was were affected by Persian horse riders to help hold their feet in stirrups which allow them to stand up to shoot their bows and arrows nobility in Western Europe I got to the style as a symbol of make cheese ball and higher the heels you wore a wealthier you up. Because they were something to go for walking on, Street women began to adopt masculine fashion including the high-heeled but by the 1740s Ms. fashion became more practical and less ostentatious in high heels were considered foolish until the mid-19th century high heels on women symbolize female sexuality while neckties date back to at least 210 BC China is no evidence to suggest that neckties were commonly worn by men at that time the modern necktie evolved from the cravat worn by 17th-century Croatian soldiers with theories on their use been to hide a dirty shirt to provide psychological protection of the neck during the battle to hold together the to distinguish themselves from other soldiers during the 30 years war in the early 1600s Croatian mercenaries were hired by Francis King Louis the reason of their colorful not in the worry cravat coming from a corrupt French pronunciation Pro by the early 19th century the way a man not in his neckwear became such an important indication of his mail back became known more simply as a tie answer to separate class if you came where one while operating machinery a gets in the way of manual labor you can check out the full video an explanation including the origins of the codpiece in the show notes so from the clip it's clear that fashion can and does dissent from utility and notably that heels began as a tool for riders on the cover of wonder woman number one she's charging into battle a top white steed and I imagine you can already guess where I'm going with this if the Amazons are or were at Calvary culture of horseback warriors like the Mongolians or Persians they might have adopted a similar innovation and it would be reasonable to have stylistic flourishes that acknowledge that even if wonder woman's wedges cannot serve to secure stir up it's not a rational that they might be a part of the Amazonian motif centuries later just as we continue to wear heels and neckties to this very day another source of apologetics is whether this is wonder woman's one and only costume I'm sure you know that our military provides it servicemen with an array of uniforms for different purposes address uniform for formal occasions and a service uniform for day-to-day noncombat duties any utility uniform or PDU battle dress uniform or fatigues for actual combat you may remember in Man of Steel Jor-El went through several different costumes and a short span each of which could have fulfilled different roles the costumes that we are seeing now may be just one of several variants on the other hand it is a cultural value judgment that having a particular costume for a particular occasion is the way to go perhaps in Amazonian culture one's primary clothing is meant for all occasions then the costume would reasonably be used in peace time more than in combat and accordingly have more fashion flourishes than a purely utilitarian uniform even if the uniforms are meant for battle fashion and style were the rule rather than the exception across human history and even if these uniforms were meant for battle fashion and style were the rule rather than the exception across human history I don't need to take you very far back at all for over 100 years the soldiers of the British Army more the nickname redcoats unsurprisingly because they wore bright redcoats now there are some pragmatic and utilitarian justifications for the color red but there are far fewer explanations for the specific cut the dramatic hats and other fashionable flourishes while I'm not going to assume that the Atlantean's or the Amazonian's are backwards people I think it's fair to say that they probably don't share the same contemporary sensibilities across the board that are more global mundane community might and so there fashion may plausibly express itself on the battlefield as it has throughout human history except in the last century of combat one of my favorite childhood memories is the arms and armor exhibit in the Metropolitan Museum of Art or the met the exhibit has been on display since 1912 and I kind a take it for granted that it will always be there as the coolest part of the museum for those who haven't yet developed an appreciation for art I defy anyone to look at the items on exhibit and say that those arms and armor our purely utilitarian even something as innocuous as engraving can serve to give an enemy blade more purchase to bite into and penetrate your protection nonetheless style and artistry has prevailed over pragmatism for actual historical armor worn in battle of course at the end of the day there is a distinct separation between the stylize world of superhero comic books and reality even if the practicality of heels is questionable so to our masked vigilantes and superpowered aliens and it is up to the filmmakers to help us believe that they are plausible and to that and I'm certain that the Kent and Hathaway's Catwoman pulled them off in New Orleans realistic universe and Snyder has already pulled them off on film before what if I told you that baby doll from sucker punch and silk specter from watchmen did all their fight scenes in heels would you doubt me well if you didn't you should have truth be told it is mixed I had to double check to be sure but basically the scenes with heels are intercut with scenes in far more reasonable footwear when the choreography picks up Carter or politically might do some action in heels but switch to boots for running and I guess that's arguably aghast but it's an inoffensive one in less you were specifically looking for it until researching for this segment I had never given it a second thought a film is meant to be watched in real time not frame by frame and by the time you're subjecting it to that level of scrutiny your unnecessarily subjecting yourself to seeing stunt doubles continuity gaffes and other inconsequential matters so long as the illusion is intact for most when viewed normally I don't think it matters if I were to check on others I suspect the same holds true for all live-action heroes pretending to fight in heels whether garners Electra Berrien Phifer's Catwoman Alba's invisible woman and so on and so forth I haven't really checked but I'm fairly confident in that guess one last thought it wonder woman can fly are in practical wedges less egregious well maybe a little I don't really think so but it's something to think about so even less seriously than the heels let's talk the skirt it's both a break from and an acknowledgment of tradition for most of wonder woman's history she's worn essentially briefs however in her first appearance and many times thereafter she has worn skirts and more recently skirts inspired by that stylized Greco-Roman skirt composed of leather straps called the Teddy gets belled PGE are why GES or TTE argue GS which is loosely translated from Greek as feathers the design provides a modicum of protection a margin of modesty and maximum freedom of movement while causing the mind to remember ancient mythology it looks like wonder woman it pays tribute to tradition and it grounds the design in the real world historical influences making her part of this world of course not everyone is as much a fan of it as I either because they hoped for the briefs or because they believe that wonder woman should wear pants I certainly believe that there is value in tradition but I also think that there is an art and adaptation and I think they with the right way the skirt the briefs are talk to translate in a live action straightfaced take if Superman hasn't already established that the bold briefs are a superhero norm in this world as for pants I'm all for wonder woman wearing whatever she wants but this is hardly the first time nor will it be the last time better costume has been confronted with criticism calls for change shortly before the launch of new 52 DC you reboot of the comics in 2010 wonder woman underwent a costume change that included a leather jacket and dark pants additionally fans were treated to differing concept art her new 52 costume with them without pants sparking this debate a new in 2011 I thought it might be fun to listen to a few celebrity attendees of New York comic con 2009 share their views on whether wonder woman should wear pants by way of Alan Kistler and the crazy sexy geeks show the actual gladiators will have a Jennifer slightest from the next American gladiators is is is is is is a gene artist top 10 in the lane visual artist and Sherry news on the actor fashion designer a good place is working can gone fashion authority is few artists and writers you think will secure you were issue is a practicality to how you got it will be a miracle Laurie after dollhouse you and you and the Caulfield after Buffy is a wave powerful and if they don't see what is in a you will have a obviously not an objective poll conducted by a self proclaimed comic book historian directing the question at fans of the genre had a comic book convention nonetheless I thought was a fun series of interviews and you can check out the full thing with the video in the show well that was a lot of apologetics the costume and I think outside of a realistic take it certainly less of an issue you just help your audience to become genre savvy and they accepted as part of the tropes of the genre sort of like how large pyrotechnic explosions are expected in action films fight choreography and martial arts films or spontaneous singing in musicals and so on for that reason I've defended Superman's brief in the comics because it serves as a litmus test or shibboleth for someone who gets it were they don't it acts as a lightning rod for criticism allowing you to generally tell with the critic is coming from however that's not the approach that they took with Man of Steel and so far it looks like they're being remarkably consistent with believable and grounded costumes that still summon their comic book counterparts the mind and are readily identified as such and so on from costumes to the casting of scout cadet and let's just paused the hopefully pronounced this correctly it scout could go to rhymes with tote not Gallagher.rhymes with spot nor gal good toe rhymes with Merlot taro escargot she's Israeli and not French so the key is not silent but lest there be any doubt here she is saying her own name and it being said by a Tel Aviv reporter's discussed in the cheapest to attend to dress up with 19 she won the Miss Israel pageant in 2000 and forth and went on to represent Israel enemies universe competition that he is going to me is reality then she started alongside such big Hollywood heavyweights like Cameron Diaz's diesel and Tina they go about the notes that don't go to the inherent in our difficulty in pinning down the pronunciation of her name is that she is culturally foreign to the US and has an accent which may lend to the credibility of her role as an imposter from a hidden island of Amazons I love Linda Carter but there was very little about her performance that suggested she was anything but American which perhaps served her role as Navy Yeoman Petty Ofc. first class Prince just fine that I'm excited to see a more global justice league I know that there is a lot to talk about so just to keep it focused and to give us ground to revisit I'm just go to tackle one more concerned her lack of acting experience it is a reasonable concern for such an iconic character that means so much to so many people on which such lofty expectations are placed but as Henry cavil has repeatedly said in so many interviews you can't play and I can't cavil's approach is always been to play the character that he was given to internalize in humanized and project was on the page and what he is directed to do when people fell in love with Carter as wonder woman it was last because of the importance stature and significance of wonder woman is an icon but because Carter brought her take on the character to life Carter didn't try to embody some perfect idealized conception of all of wonder woman's possible virtues focused instead on playing a character and on the spectrum of icon to character actors and filmmakers justifiably air on the side of character because characters can be in an can tell stories where is icons have stories told about them typically in the form of nonfiction documentaries rather than tales of fantastic venture and so it will be would conduct and if the writer is worthy and the director deft and discerning her part will be written to suit her talents and directed us such films like the matrix and punchdrunk love show that a film can exceed the expectations of the lead actors talents but I'm not worried I'm sure she'll do great and remember that Batman be Superman has wrapped as of December so Warner Bros. has a good idea of what they have on their hands and I'm sure Michelle McLaren has seen the relevant dailies and I imagine the buzz is positive because good tote has been picking up more roles and is rumored as being eyed for keeping up with the Joneses the Studios and casting directors are seeing something that gives them confidence which makes me excited to see her in a more substantial English-language role it is admittedly a strawman let's compare good totes acting experience to Carter's experienced when first landing the role of wonder woman by her own admission prior to wonder woman Carter had only done one TV movie and a couple of bit parts on TV nonetheless she was able to capture America's hearts minds and imaginations adult landed a reoccurring part in a major film franchise appearing thrice and had to reoccurring television roles as well as many bit parts in future films let's let Carter speak about it herself I had that guy out for the first time that wonder what I added little to call back and they decided to redo it I was just a startling actress had a couple of partisan of the screen actors Guild but that's a couple of trying to things here and there and that I was studying and out working hard to get an highlighted I had a couple of screen tests and visiting call cold readings and I really a job ethical really nice and I didn't have to call three A saw and felt so me anything I would think the film I'm you… Would like the attached Excel like it was thrilling and any experience as a network didn't want to chance a producer said this is the only person can play this and it certainly won't do it down even around (for me and the rest is history and $25 in my bank account again it's different time different expectations so it's not a serious argument to say that casting a modern big-budget action film should follow the criteria of the television show from the 70s however whatever space Carter occupies in the public consciousness and in our hearts wasn't hampered by her lack of experience despite being a different time and medium these actors share something in common besides the golden lasso and tiara they were both willing to do their own stunts the following is from a PBS pioneers of television episode on superheroes acting was also a challenge because Linda Carter was so inexperienced when she landed the role hair, Ralph cursed and wonder why I think I'll actually be playing going to win type there really awful because female actually stars were so rare in the 1970s when Linda Carter needed a stunt double producers dressed up a man intercut with Herod as damaging as far as always the wears know in one scene wonder woman was supposed to hang onto a helicopter but the shot would clearly revealed this… Linda Carter decided to do this.herself: is it anyway and it went one would've been get studio. Start might've been injured make sure Carter got is a female stunt double that is such a funny story and it shows how far we come Carter had to contend with not having female stunt double but she forge the past that was followed by Charlie's Angels the bionic woman Ridley Sarah Connor Buffy Janeway Zena and so we progressed so far that today we take it for granted that are actors have stunt doubles which was one of the reasons that the matrix and its imitators were such a revelation in training the actors to do much of their own stunt work of philosophy that carried over to Man of Steel and having Russell Crowe do his own underwater sequence and Henry cavil doing all of his own stunts in an interview with Virginia Tech news Henry cavil stunt double Paul Darnell said Henry did all of his own stunts in the film I would rehearse and set up the stunts and Henry would come in and knock them out on film that seems consistent with the clip that we played back in episode 12 cavil talks about the deleted oil rig scene that had encoded in fire Joe Darnell also says Henry cavil is also a truly amazing person a man's man Henry is pretty much a stuntman in the fact that he is super down to earth very strong and extremely athletic working with Henry is just like hanging out with one of the guys it's awesome to know that our Superman left such a positive impression on his coworker as long as were giving stunt people love like to quickly mentioned that Samantha Jo or carved backs the kryptonian the tangled Lois on the black zero is primarily known as a stunt performer but she also played katana in Mortal Kombat legacy but we were talking about wonder woman said today is the norm for actors to rely on doubles but Man of Steel allowed it to lead to do his own stunts and it appears the good tote is going to fit right in with that hears good tote in a Huffington Post live interview promoting the fast and the furious sex that have because they are actually little Linn officiating affect I have tried to understand that if he wants me and thanks going to be able to do anyone have more actions that he'll if you look at me and he was like really think the script and it was amazing and crazy and a gadget very excited to be able to do everything that I may sound been signed by the Batman in action actors that you can do this correctly a lease that he would you would never be able to doing it in the relies and Angel rated very much the creepiest leverage is there something that really is a call activity that there is a scene where a dry the modernist I call and then a gentleman driving game and was that kind of energy which I like so minds but it was kind of scary wisely backing this movie you get to work with the most professional people and the coordinator I worked with maybe feel so confident and so secured that I fell freely with Betty when able when a link is she's going to be in good company with the Moeller said that he did most of his own stunts for Conan in an interview with inked magazine and athletic who did some of his own stunt work in daredevil of course with the assistance of doubles each with their own specialty light wire work fighting it's not a necessity that they do any of their own stunts but it adds a touch of authenticity to the scenes were double isn't needed digital or otherwise and often times just preparing to tackle that start as if you're going to do it yourself can help put the actor in the mindset to embody the character how did we get here there is so much more ground to cover but I love it I hope that all the future DCC you films are well received but it seems like I will have 800 comment on to answer and explain the universe gets bigger and bigger there is so much more on wonder woman and good tote but will have to come back to this some other time a lot of the stuff that I had prepared was preempted by the Aquaman reveal but one last wonder woman think I read watched several documentaries about or relating to wonder woman in preparation for this segment and there's just something amusing to me because it's parts of the same story told from two different perspectives by the parties involved in two different documentaries first we have Gloria Steinem in the 2012 PBS Independent lens film wonder woman the untold story of American super heroines the first regular cover of Ms. magazine we wanted to have something that was a sad that you can have democracy without is and so we thought what bigger image than a superhero all the idea of wonder woman striding through the world as a colossus stopping war with one hand and with the other hand what could be better than that then we discovered that she had fallen on theory hard times of powers which he is four and she is why is earth is is is is is powers lives in terms whenever we had to persuade or not to say lobby and practically margin the street to get her magical powers but also we we wanted all women to be represented and I remember the person in charge of wonder woman calling me a DC comics so annoying and he said okay we have she has her magical powers back your lasso or bracelet she has paradise island back and she has a black African Amazons cistern a new be you leave me alone then we hear Jenny O'Neill's perspective in the 2013 PBS superheroes great power great responsibility though DC comics superhero stories work earnestly grappling with topical issues the all-male writing staff was ill-prepared the handle the rise of a popular new movement in the 1970s as a blue-collar lower middle class Irish get from her St. Louis and I believe in pacifism in racially quality and along came feminism and I thought I ought to believe in this but emotionally I was five years away from accepting an understanding feminism so there you have that so Aquaman and wonder woman have many obvious parallels there both royalty and come from magical fantasy kingdoms to have been hidden from the eyes of men and are found in ancient Greek myth oath have ties to Greek gods like Poseidon inherent in their underlying themes being fantasy they are the two justice league members most experienced with an prone to slaying dragons and monsters and thus somewhat quicker to use force as they deem necessary as a quick aside Superman's battle with Zide in Man of Steel perhaps gives him the party of experience to speak and be heard by an Amazonian warrior and an undersea king they could respect his aversion to killing as justifiable rather than just naïve Snyder had insisted on a Superman but never kills purely on principle could a realistic Superman ever cooperate with or see eye to eye with more pragmatic warriors routinely kill it's an open question and will obviously revisit it but back to Aquaman and wonder woman the parallels did make them a suggested pair and Morrison's jail a run and when Mark Waid picked up the run and had the lead face-off against the queen of fables wonder woman a princess was put into a deep inch had to sleep and awakened only by Aquaman's casts a king who was once a prince they were also paired into a Greek tragedy of the political marriage in flashpoint the transitional alternate DC dystopia between the post crisis continuity and the new 52 this has led some to speculate that the two might be romantically paired in justice league I think it's too early to tell especially since we don't know what supporting characters are going to be in their solo films for some it's an intriguing possibility but I'm sure that everyone knows that being teammates or coworkers doesn't necessarily make romance inevitable but will say aside from a potential ship they also share magical accessories in common wonder woman is probably better known for her magical tools in the most iconic amongst them are the lasso of truth or the lariat of Hestia and her indestructible bracelets forged by Hephaestus Aquaman meanwhile wields the Trident of Neptune of though the God is typically referred to as Poseidon within the comics they both have had other perhaps less widely known tools like their swords in their armor wonder woman's tiara her invisible Jack and even her earrings have had purpose in the past Aquaman's notorious okay and and than the magical water hand and if you listen to the show before you know that I love breakdowns and lists and I'm definitely excited to go through all the year origins abilities powers and magic eventually but not this episode but to last things about the tried one do know that the three-pronged USB symbol is alleged to be inspired by Neptune's Trident and to did you know that while filming Batman be Superman a Detroit Zack Snyder called into a Detroit radio talk station to defend Aquaman here's a clip from that call back in August is this Zack Snyder to highlight that right however you got on the radio and got buried in a little bit Aquaman perfect requesting to know what is involved to me could be there but will aggravate a way about it out little be worried like I get mad cool abilities it all that I did people are like a lot identity guard animal that is likely to especially the article being aired it up in the real hundred like actually the flash of Superman if you contact of the and he didn't go to the that that the it actually comes up here at the Ukraine that you movie or anything like these the potential could be data about so a couple of quick notes about the clip first we know that Snyder has been thinking about these heroes and their interactions months in advance of any official announcement second we know that Snyder wants all the heroes to be honored and was moved to call in and ensure that Aquaman was being disrespected third it shows that Snyder considers and uses Superman as his benchmark the abilities of Aquaman's Trident would be meaningless if Snyder and the public didn't hold Superman's durability in high esteem instead it significant Aquaman's Trident might be up to world Superman because Superman is recognized as so durable and that serves as a nice segue into something I promise I talk about back in episode seven the magic quote unquote weakness magic the you are my physical match but I since one critical difference is basically I want to lay out why Superman isn't allergic to magic and shouldn't be harmed by it more than others so some ground rules on what were talking about and how first were not explicitly talking about the DCC you particularly since we have yet to see if or how magical be handled in the cinematic universe second I'm not interested in playing semantics for the purposes of this discussion within the distinguish between a weakness and a vulnerability as different terms even if they can be used nearly interchangeably in other contexts or perhaps in regular parlance here in this discussion invulnerability is merely something one is susceptible to wear as a weakness is something one is especially susceptible to more so than others I may use the word allergy or allergic by way of analogy in place of weakness in this discussion so using these terms of art we can restate the hypothesis as Superman is vulnerable to magic but he is not week to magic third I'm not arguing that this is how Superman has universally been handled by creators I'm well aware of precedence and products to the contrary for example Scott Snyder's Batman issue number 20 rather this is an argument for why the not week to magic viewpoint is perhaps more logically sound and consistent then proposing that Superman is especially week to magic this seems to be the appropriate way to resolve differing precedent by seeing which one is more reasonable forth and finally this is obviously a lark and clearly a fan rant for fun it's not a manifesto and expectation or a declaration of demand even if this is what I'd like to believe it's not worth getting upset over belittling others about it or boycotting things over at the end of the day it's just comics so let me start with my expert witness could be Zack highly acclaimed superhero comic book writer having one the Harvey award for best writer in 1998 and the Eisner award for best writer in 1991 along with several other Harvey Eisner and other awards for his writing throughout the years he's probably best known for marvels with Alex Ross and for Astro city but in Superman circles he's known for writing the must read Superman secret identity published in 2004 and for his runs on action comics and Superman between 2005 and 2011 music also wrote the avengers from 1998 to 2004 concluding with his historic jail a avengers cross publisher crossover where Superman prevails over Thor and his magical hammer mole near in a CBR forum post here's what Dusek had to say on Superman and magic Superman is not allergic to magic it doesn't affect him like kryptonite he simply vulnerable to it the way everyone else's so a turn into a bunny spell would turn Superman into a bunny it would also turn Hulk or gladiator into a bunny the reason Superman is described as vulnerable to magic is not because he's more vulnerable to it than anyone else but because he is invulnerable to just about everything else parenthetically or he was precrisis when magic red sun rays and kryptonite were about it magic doesn't affect him differently from the way it affects other people it affects him the same way it does other people he has no immunity to it and neither do the Hulk and gladiator and no stores hammered doesn't make him stronger there are no spells on it that make it hit hard there are a bunch of magic spells on it but they've been enumerated and none of them make it harder this spells would work on Superman to the extent that they work on anyone but they do what the spells are enchanted to do they wouldn't do more to Superman than they would do to the Hulk or gladiator because those two characters are no less vulnerable to magic than Superman and so ends his post so aside from view sex accolades and accreditations he's the man who's written four for six years as an avenger and thus not inclined to an anti-for basis in his analysis of course all of really done is restate the same position by a respected and decorated brighter obviously the other position is out there but why isn't it as consistent or as well reasoned I mean either position is the writer's prerogative and either one can be done by Fiat but why is magic as a mere vulnerability more logically sound and magic as a weakness of the problem with magic as a weakness is that it requires that either Superman's powers or that all of magic has a special sensitivity to the other either that Superman's powers recognize magic or that magic recognizes Superman on its face that might seem okay as a way of giving Superman weakness but it falls apart on examination and let me give you an example suppose we were to strike Superman with Harry Potters Broom intuitively we know that it is enchanted for flight with no special striking or offensive characteristics under the allergy theory striking Superman with Harry Potters Broom would not only hurt him as much as a normal person but more than a normal person would be harmed if struck by any broom simply because the broom itself is magical this creates a serious quandary how to Superman's non-mystical scientifically-based powers know that the broom is magical how does his powers know either to stand down and step out of the way ceasing to protect Superman or to affirmatively harm him more than another person would be now it should be obvious that they don't and that they can't that would in view Superman's powers with sentience and magic detection tying his science-based powers to the irrational force of magic obviously that is a ridiculous bird into place of his powers but then what's the alternative the alternative is that all magic is unified fundamentally scientific and interacts with kryptonian powers in a uniform way no matter how irrelevant the underlying magic is to the harm or that every spell cast has a rider attached to it and in the fine print saying this will weaken and hurt Superman so when enchanting Harry's broom under their breath they mutter and this will hurt Superman or that all magic throughout the multi-verse has a consistent scientific interaction with kryptonian powers of course that's absurd for a number of reasons first there are countless examples of Superman being subjected to Allied or beneficial spells being healed teleported shielded etc. Superman seems perfectly fine kissing been magically interviewed wonder woman visiting shazam at the rock of eternity or shaking his hand or going to Dr. fate his power and so on so unless this hidden fine print now also includes an exemption for intentionally beneficial spells his doesn't seem to be the answer either second magic itself does not have a consistent or uniform basis have going to resist the impulse to quote Arthur C Clarke and just say that I'm not entirely sure that there is a consistent definition for what is constitutes magic when we start to transcend the dimensions and enter the cosmic in the far-flung future and parallel planes the line between a fifth dimensional him and a magical genie of the lamp are perhaps blurred perhaps there is a unifying principle across it all but I find that very unlikely some magic is chaotic and unruly while other magic may as well be science given how orderly systematic and rule-based it can be seen some cases like flashes road from the 64th century abracadabra magic is science honestly the only thing binding it all together is probably the fourth wall and the writers pen which still follows a bare minimum of rules found by storytelling logic even the most chaotic and arbitrary of magic one not allow for story breaking results even the most omnipotent in story magic is but the illusion that anything can happen and not that literally anything can so given all these disparate forms of magic unlikely to share a common source or set of rules it seems profoundly unlikely and unreasonable that the one ruled that all magic should share is that they are harmful to kryptonian's in particular views expressed in is much more elegant Superman follows science well as much as he traditionally does and magic follows magic Superman is only affected by magic to the extent that anything else would be affected by the same rule of magic hitting Superman with the broom enchanted only to fly has no effect beyond swinging any other broom at Superman since the enchantment has no relevance to hitting however a vulnerable sword enchanted to cut anything would cut Superman because he is anything of course because the nature of enchantment and magic is not typically that explicit it tends to crate a gray area of ambiguity and interpretation for example widens shazam's lightning hurt Superman more than normal lightning which on its best day may wholly tickle the Man of Steel well we don't know explicitly what the direct magical effect of shazam's lightning is on targets other than himself and while that ambiguity makes it easy to assume that the harm is simply because of its magical nature I would suggest that we hold off on jumping to that conclusion since the lightning itself does not conform strictly to the laws of physics to begin with shazam's lightning bolt is not just literal lightning it can appear and the cloudless sky and in some books could be summoned indoors typically travels to its summoner irrespective of whether there is a more likely path that natural lightning would follow and of course it does something very different in striking its intended target than a natural lightning bolt would do so for all we know mechanically the magic may harm Superman because part of the spell is to create lightning where none should be even if that is beyond her past Superman's force field or some other similar rationalization given the inconsistencies and the ambiguity for these kind of things we may have to just go for heuristics and precedents rather than hard and fast rules and while there are precedents that fall over the place I know that you know that Superman has fought many a magical entity survived many magical attacks and taken on the magical powered as more than a mere mortal man on many occasions even if for example shazam's lightning hurt Superman it seems to hurt him far less than a regular Joe getting hit by lightning and in fact the showdown between ambiguous magic and kryptonian powers was even the linchpin to a feature film 1984's Supergirl starring Helen Slater and Faye Dunaway if you remember the movie Supergirl face-off against the sorceress powered by a kryptonian or the Omega he drove the orbit makes the magic ambiguous but nonetheless if taken is magic Kara survives a number of attacks that would've killed a normal human being out right including being polled and twisted by a giant horned creature so even on film magic isn't necessarily an instantaneous defeat for kryptonian's if you don't remember Supergirl 1984 I suggest you reminisce with Rebecca and Teresa over@Supergirlradio.com they have an awesome fan podcast devoted to the upcoming CBS Supergirl TV show and are in the midst of a preshow season spanning the Supergirl mythos and media in episode to be talk about the film and soon they'll be covering Kara in the Man of Steel prequel comic the Man of Steel fans need to check that one out there a part of a solid DC TV their part of a solid network of DC TV podcast that is definitely worth a listen they are a great part of a solid network of DC TV podcasts that are definitely worth a listen so be sure to support them check them out and tell them talk oxygen eventually will have more data points to discuss the DCC you and that will start to see how kryptonian's and magic will interact with all this talk about weaknesses and vulnerabilities I wanted to mention at least one way which Superman might benefit from the introduction magical kingdoms in the DCC you in episode nine I did a lot of apologetics for how Clark's secret identity might have survived Man of Steel but I was still stumped on how they could believably maintain it in a strictly realistic world going forwards you might remember that I put conditions on the analysis like no new powers like amnesia kiss and a realistic world but magic contravenes that underlying assumption doesn't it going forwards the DCC you seems like Atlantis and the muscaria were always in our world but undetectable for some reason or another it's possible that those reasons are technological but I'm inclined to imagine that they will be magical so at least two kingdoms with the magic to maintain a secret hidden from the entire world despite modern technology something in that may be applicable to Superman maintaining his secret identity and depending on its execution it wouldn't be world breaking at least no more than the introductions of Atlanta's or Amazons is intrinsically world breaking it might not be completely traditional but if the league unites his allies it seems completely rational to help your teammates protect their loved ones by keeping their cover identities using any reasonable means possible whether that means dipping into Batman's billions or calling on the Atlantean magi will I hope you enjoyed this episode I'm doing my best the time and the responsibilities that I have but it's a pleasure to put these together for you and I appreciate you listening to have to cut it off here so the mail back questions that I have a good have to wait as well as all those bits of news from Christina Wren's comments to Viola Davis to Hans Zimmer talking about themes and Margot Robbie talking about contracts it is an awesome time to be a DCC you fan if you haven't already subscribed to the YouTube channel there are new videos tackling more Man of Steel myths for you like and to share okay I think I've rambled on long enough Man of Steel answers insight commentary is a proud member of the Superman podcast network here some other shows I recommend you check out if you want to extend your enjoyment of the Superman mythos got it together from the far reaches of beings that are assembled and that's what got dedicated to the bust greatest superhero is Superman like featuring a means is the DC comics crisis Superman podcast is Superman this you will is will podcast them forever and about what you you you will podcast KL from Superman homepage.com is John Wilson really are leaving my present bat your retailer Michael they start to Sam result is the Mario is given by an highlighted I gave Younis and how has Gotti they because that what thanks so much soliciting I just love discussing the stuff and if you been sticking with me hopefully you do genuinely grateful for each and every listener and hope you join us Man of Steel answers.com that way if you got a question you want answered insights you want to share commentary to make composing the comments for all your like-minded apologist to see where you can email me@mosaicManofSteelofSteelanswers.com if you like what you heard please review the show in iTunes and subscribed to help others find podcast so they can enjoy Man of Steel and DCC you is much as you do this is Dr. awkward your DC cinematic universe apologist signing off CNX of answers to help it now I really like the girl in an era before had