Man of Steel answers insight commentary episode 19 Ellesmere tornado topics blame welcome to Man of Steel answers insight commentary on your Man of Steel apologist Dr. awkward I cover a mosaic of topics for fans who love discussing the Man of Steel and the DC cinematic universe together will endeavor to answer the questions criticisms and controversies raised by Man of Steel and those eagerly anticipating the DCC you today we continue our commentary for Ellesmere we briefly revisit superspeed and durability and we discussed whether Clark is at fault for the kryptonian's this podcast dives deep into Man of Steel to answer the critics and the confused the show is not meant to convert anybody but the celebrate a film that will lead us into the DC cinematic universe reasonable minds will differ but this is a show for fans who love Man of Steel and who love to chew their food back I'm going to be away on business a bit but I hoped that I could sneak a episode in before going out of town so when outlining my notes I was a bit surprised at how fertile ground these scenes were for topics in commentary but we just have to make do with what I was able to throw together and maybe revisit some of these things down the road when we last left Clark he had trashed the truck and now we pick up with Clark hitchhiking to Ellesmere is got to quick comments about this little interstitial scene first note that we hear the percussion of the Superman precursor theme those optimistic drums it's the forward-looking suggestion that Clark is moving towards his identity and this is a step in the right direction second hitchhiking tends to demand a certain degree of optimism socialization skills and trust in mankind that's slightly old-fashioned and fallen out of favor today I know hitchhiking was waning in my time but the social contract of hitchhiking believes in the kindness of others now to be fair Clark can definitely take care of himself and even without his powers you don't pick up a musclebound men like him of his size with the intention of harming him but it means that others can trust him enough despite his frame to show him the kindness and charity of a ride and some company now why or whether Clark even needs to hitchhike is a separate topic and will may be tackle that later so one of the goals of this commentary is to point out the little things that fly by so quickly that you might not catch them the first time when we get to Ellesmere I don't know whether there's any meaning or parallels Lois enters the film via helicopter it's easy to miss but the person who helps her down from the helicopter is Clark under the guise of Joe she locks eyes with Clark who helps them down and she says thanks and as you no doubt recall the last scene of the film is Lois introducing herself to Clark shaking his hand and welcoming him that means that for Lois her first and last lines in the films are directed towards Clark who she interacts with in both instances the first time not quite noticing him in the final time knowing more about him than anyone else again I don't know if that's significant a perhaps somebody more literary minded than me has some ideas there also might be some parallels between Lois and Clark and a helicopter meeting for the first time in Man of Steel and Superman 78 but I don't know what speaking about the helicopter it's clearly a civilian model marked Arctic cargo and Jed Eubanks introduces himself as from Arctic cargo I mention this because the film clearly intended a civilian presence at this military installation which is outside of the United States and meant to have little or no permanent US presents with the support of the host nation here Canada and civilian contractors the intentional and authentic inclusion of contractors this military site explains why both Clark and Lois are able to be there some try to suggest that any military installation is going to be locked as tight as Fort Knox or area 51 but that simply isn't the case for high speed nearly spontaneous camps like this one the privatization was intentional and authentic the filmmakers didn't accidentally paint Arctic cargo onto the side of helicopter or mistakenly have them help with the logistics of the camp it was reasonable for the citizens to have limited access and Lois even cites the contractors as corroborating her story to Perry later perhaps him getting into this too much but sometimes people point out clearly intentional inclusions as if they were accidental oversights for example showing Clark's humanity and flaws or in this case showing his ability to access this temporary military Jared Eubanks calls it a camp which is what it is but let's not skip over his lines he says I've got a confessed Ms. Lane I'm not a fan of the daily planet but those pieces you wrote when you were embedded with the first division well they were pretty impressive first this establishes that Lois distinguishes herself from the pack enough to convince a detractor now I don't know necessarily why Jed doesn't like the daily planet maybe it has political leanings that he doesn't agree with or maybe he just doesn't like journalists in general but whatever those feelings are Lois his work in reputation overcomes that second we know that Lois is a seasoned reporter who has presumably done some war correspondents so she's used to action danger and soldiers this also tends to indicate that Eubanks is American maybe since his reference to the first division is most likely talking about the first infantry division the nickname the fighting first or the big red one since their shoulder patch insignia is literally a red 1 on an olive green shield their mottos are no mission to difficult no sacrifice to great and duty first and they hold the distinction of being the oldest continually serving division in the regular U.S. Army through the 2000's they been deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan meaning that Lois was embedded with them while in the Middle East so she is no stranger to dealing with the military and I'm sure you're aware that in many traditions Lois was a military brat and her father a general something yet to be established in the cinematic universe but in a way not having general Sam Lane makes Lois a little more impressive because she garnered her reputation and gained access to the military on her own without relying on her connections to her father maybe looking over the camp we see that it's a collection of modular buildings reflecting its temporary and hasty nature in the interior of one of those buildings Lois meets Col. Hardy and Dr. Emile Hamilton and we get a short moment packed with a Lotta's nonverbal acting everyone is all smiles Lois extends her hand in greeting and Hardy leaves her hang Lois smiles with that knowing look which says okay so that's how it's been a bit Hamilton does acceptor handshake and Hardy confronts her with her early and unexpected arrival she launches into some challenging dialogue about the procedural details which we covered extensively in episode 11 and then says so if were done measuring decks can you have your people show me what you've found Hardy grimaces and Hamilton can't help to be amused there so little to work with but we get a lot out of it Hardy clearly has a problem with Lois Ann Hamilton is affable and we see that Lois is able to stand her own neither the military or DARPA's presence should automatically raise an eyebrow in a previous episode we laid out that the USAF can have the duty to track anomalies and North con founded in 2002 in response to 9/11 is generally tasked with coordinating with the continental allies like Canada to protect American interests meanwhile tarp is interests and projects are so varied and disparate you could almost expect a representative to show up anywhere under some tenuous technological connection DARPA sometimes refers to itself as 100 geniuses connected by a travel agent nonetheless Lois his instincts served her well in getting on this story long time Superman fans will be familiar with Dr. Emile Hamilton was created by Marv Wolfman and Jerry Ordway in 1987 and has historically flipped between ally and enemy across media is one of the most reoccurring modern Superman supporting cast members appearing in Lois and Clark the animated series the DCA you and small bill liked Dr. Hamilton so much they had to the first played by Joe Moran in the first two seasons been a different presumably unconnected Dr. Hamilton would appear in season eight on played by Alessandro Giuliani hope is in our next scene as officer Stokowski you may recall him as Lieut. Felix Gaeta on battle start the lactic a Man of Steel has a Lotta fun casting like that we could play 6° of separation with Man of Steel and genre media all day when you factor Battle Star Galactica of the matrix dollhouse and so much more into the mix Christopher Maloney who plays Col. Hardy was how Jordan in Green Lantern first flight Superman's two dads both played Robin Hood Arron Smolinski played baby Clark Kent the one who lifts the truck in Superman 78 also cameos as a communication officer in Man of Steel however to keep this from being an audio reading of IMDb let's just confined the connections to small bill Amy Adams was of course the freak of the week in the episode craving blogger Woodburn played by Chad Crowe truck was in forever McKenzie grade and played jacks are also played Lex Luther's clone in season tends Premier Lazarus to moped a kit at a small cameo in season three then came back in the reoccurring role of West Keenan in season six in Tracy who played Ludlow was the villain in season five's mercy and David pate cope the officer who says Superman in the film for the first time had a bit role in season one and then returned to play Dan Turpin and bulletproof all of these connections came by way of the krypton site.com check them out we definitely need to talk about the ties to the matrix cavil and Adams trying help for their respective roles multiple times in the past and more behind the scenes stuff someday casting and connections could be an entire episode all on its own but we have got to move on so this scene shifts and we get a deluge of dense technobabble that's pretty good to my ear but if you're an expert in satellites the interaction of ice shelves and radio echo soundings and isotope analysis real free to write me in with your take on the terms being thrown about my pet peeves is the misuse of expert terminology as technobabble when all you have to do is consult an expert to make the lines work which is why we went into the legal mumbo-jumbo so much in our Lois Lane episode but here I think everything is at least excusable a quick note however I think I've misinterpreted the 300 m line here at least twice once in the scout ship video where I say is the size of the Soviet era sob and Hardy says it's clearly larger than that because it's 300 m in size and then again I make a mistake in probably think the first episode where I say that it was buried in the ice 300 m deep but again it's 300 m in size I've made plenty of mistakes just generally speaking so always double check before citing the 20,000-year-old figure seems tied to the start of human civilization perhaps as a way of explaining or excusing how it's prehistoric arrival was never recorded discovered or disclosed throughout time for example that the ship had landed last week it's hard to imagine humanity not discovering an earlier we can speculate on this more but another time let's keep going Hardy tells Lois not to wonder and rewards it temperatures dropped to -40 at night and that they wouldn't find her body until after spring this is clearly an attempt to manipulate her but first 40° below zero but 40° what Celsius or Fahrenheit well fun fact either one this happens to be the one point where the two scales converge with the same number just to give you some perspective on how cold -40 is breathing air that cold is actually potentially dangerous it's difficult to breathe deeply without reflexively coughing because the air is cold enough to stay cold and cause cellular damage to your respiratory system any little bit of exposed tissue even your teeth will experience pain from temperature if you had windchill to that you can suffer frostbite in mere seconds if you've ever seen videos of boiling hot water thrown into the air and freezing midair was about 20°F warmer later we see Lois wandering around at night and her face is completely exposed her hair is blowing in the wind and we see the flag being blown nearly straight out that means it was unlikely to be 40 below that doesn't mean that Hardy was lying exactly temperatures can get that cold certainly however his warning seems motivated more as a means of limiting Lois his movements than a genuine morning or concerned for her safety he asks her to try not to wander than casually predicts the board the discovery of her body if she doesn't listen we see Joseph by them again reinforcing the idea that he's basically invisible to them at this point and that we get the exchange about tinkling may have got an old article published about 2003 about the misapplication of the term plot hole and the absence of bodily functions onscreen but another time actually probably not but remember quote when you hear hoof beats think horses not zebras unquote not unicorns not to empty halves of the coconut which may have been carried by an African swallow okay Lois laying out her photography equipment and assembling it harkens to that IKEA weaponry trope or the lock and load montage where the subject prepares for battle with a lot of clicking noises and gearing up here it's modest realistic and a mere moment but it still conveys the sense of competence and adventure that you get from the traditional trope Lois gearing up shows her to be a woman of action not content to wait out the night in her bunk if you're a Nikon fan you might recognize Lois is loadout a by thousand dollars D3 S digital SLR a $300 SB 700 speed light flash and a $2000 2470 zoom lens the D3 is a flagship professional grade D SLR camera but many professional photojournalists whereby its hefty in size and weight and hefty in price never owned a camera that cost anything close to that but I raise it because the night shot that happens to capture Clark on an evening stroll is often pointed out as improbable but I'm told that this camera could just about pull it off with its world-class high iso stable body and lightning fast shutter response this means that you can heavily cropped images or zoom in and still get impressive quality plus it's not as if the image she captured of Clark was perfect he's a blurry smudging her viewfinder after zooming in on him the fact that this is a real world camera also triggers the topic of product placement which I think will save that for another time but for now I'll just say that I like the placement even if it wasn't paid for putting krypton aside if were in a realistic reality here it's still a bit of a fringe reality where in the Arctic and a military occupied archaeological site about to encounter in 18,000-year-old anomaly from the stars in that context talking about real world agencies seeing real world vehicles and real-world equipment put me back into a grounded an authentic state of mind I'd want that whether the placement was sponsored are not and to me it makes the film more immersive than if the camera had been branded with a fake and nonexistent brant but enough about the camera on this brings us to the tunnel and let's listen to Amy Adams talk about this scene and so I he about this moment where arrived the scout ship of time and unbeknownst to me your following is I'm completely wrapped up initiative this discovery what your thoughts when you going through a tunnel will swear what if it is right on a character meaning that you want very very dark with Gary Smalley seven now and instead be here is something character and his therapist understands what you to arrange the weight of the b-day very grounded in scope of service Clark sees the ship for the first time in his mind and hours should be flooded with questions the shape in the form reminds us of his capsule even if not the scale and here krypton is the only magic in the world so far we've seen the vessel that brought him but what is this and if you haven't read the prequel comic and until Jor-El explains it to us this monolith is a mystery yet the filmmakers gave us hints on krypton Jor-El did say look to the stars like our ancestors did Jor-El and Laura were already scouting this plan's qualifications and so somewhere in the back of our minds should be the idea that this ship is tied to that this talk about the muscaria is not a kryptonian ship on the ship is being unduly ice at least 20,000 years could've been a 500,000 years it's positive the Golden age of kryptonian space travel and is a far more elegant design language and we really thought a lot about these lines which again will refer back to the kind of biological I'm organic shapes but in a fun law kind of slowing of coherent way the console appears and Clark spots the pentagonal recess in vaguely horror film fashion we see the century to send behind Clark at this point where more familiar with these then Clark is having spent some time with them on krypton we shouldn't necessarily consider them a threat except for how eerily approaches and the soundtrack Clark pulls the command key from his neck and smiles as it fits the Council perfectly however he now detects the century and is startled it attacks him and it actually manages to cause into grabbed his arm from the film it's unclear whether or if this actually harms them in the novelization this is suggestion of a wealth and in fact it strong enough to actually prevent Clark from being able to just easily hit the command key haven't had more time to break down what this says or what it means whether its commentary on how strong Clark is in this moment or perhaps how strong these kryptonian robots can be but I'm inclined to believe that this reinforces the idea that Clark exerts his strength by sheer force of will that he doesn't exert his full strength unless he wills it but I need to think more about it some other time we want to be careful not to reach conclusions too soon without weighing all the evidence and one of the common criticism comments or complaints about Man of Steel is that Clark didn't utilize his powers in a certain way or at a certain time however when I look at these criticisms they tend to be founded in the Superman tradition outside the film rather than what we were actually presented in the film icon to summarize this in the Man of Steel myths video covering the myth that Clark should have used his superspeed but those kind of objections get raised a lot in the scene for example how come Clark didn't know that Lois was following him so this is a good place to pause and talk about Clark's limitations especially since the next time we see Clark outside the scout ship he's learning to fly so we can take a moment to inventory his powers and limitations as presented by the film thus far it's important because this gives us context for interpreting other flashbacks that take place in this nonlinear narrative and it addresses criticisms which allege the mishandling or misuse of Superman's powers so for example were familiar with the tradition of Superman having super hearing auditory omniscience as we talked about in episode three in that episode I was more concerned about the mechanics of the range of the power but we didn't really talk too much about the narrative consequences of the power it given global scope I think a hand waived it as a matter of hearing but not listening but however we excuse it either as inability or inattentiveness the end result is the same Superman isn't all-knowing or omniscient in Man of Steel personally this is my preference because writing around this and the moral and ethical gymnastics used to justify inaction despite awareness of certain evils can quickly leave the realm of the intuitive the let's not get into that now the point is the oil rig is dense with information about how Clark's powers work so that the audience's expectations are in check throughout the film as long as they drew the right conclusions literally the first interaction between Clark and another human being that we see on earth is Clark being saved pushed out of the way proving that Clark can be surprised that he's not omniscient again the specific mechanism of why is unknown but you can't argue with what's on the screen Clark was surprised and so it's completely reasonable that he could be surprised and caught off guard again therefore it's unreasonable to condemn Clark for not knowing Lois had followed him into the ship or saying that Superman shouldn't have been ambushed by Zide during their fight because it's literally the first thing the filmmakers communicate to us about this version of Superman that he has the capacity and the ability to be surprised we should be disabused of the notion of omniscience almost immediately we also see that Superman can be pushed around both by burn tackling him and by the boat that he's on this is important because there is an inclination to equate durability with immobilization but that isn't the case here however most importantly were shown the Clark Lie in his climb up the oil rig you can't establish something definitively by its absence but you can support a reasonable inference the inference is proven later by Clark actually learning to fly a camera but I think between the oil rig and then were given plenty of opportunities to make the reasonable inference the Clark and neither fly nor move in visibly fast such that he can avoid detection or identification to be clear I'm not saying this can't leap tall buildings I'm not saying that he can use his superstrength to move much faster than a mere mortal I'm highlighting that there's a difference between incredible leaps and flying just as there is a difference between mechanically moving faster and supernaturally moving faster the way we expect with superspeed moving along the ground rather than a great leaps being invisibly and undetectable he fast and potentially having the ability to interact with the environment harmlessly while at speed we discussed a lot of these nuances of superspeed and episode five now several have pointed out that Clark gets to the rig in record time but a counter with two things first that there are cuts obscuring the amount of time but actually took Clark to get to the rig and second he can still get their swimming quickly through superstrength rather than superspeed we talk about those mechanics in episode four and in the mail back of episode 17 now with respect to superspeed the most common point of condemnation is Clark's failure to invisibly and without detection rescue Jonathan in the tornado scene however for that criticism to hold any weight Clark has to be capable of doing that and I don't think we see any on-screen indication that he can within Clark's chronology up to that point to the contrary the film gives us at least six scenes that would've gone differently if Clark had those abilities so from these examples let's just ask whether flight or superspeed would've change them first we have the oil rig itself if Clark could fly he probably would've been shown climbing the rig and we wouldn't see the men being rescued by way of helicopter but perhaps by a flying Clark or Clark wouldn't have stopped the following Derek at its base where he had the least leverage and maybe would've flown up higher told up there we can and should ask the same questions with superspeed if Clark could save these people in visibly without feeling his identity why wouldn't he Clark obviously wants to save these people broke down the personal cost of him doing this rescue in the oil rig episode Clark isn't preserving his secret or hiding the fact that he is powers when he tears open that door they all can see that he has powers and they can see his face however there is still the pressure of time Clark knows that outside their about to give up on that he's already heard over the radio forget them there dead with his powers already revealed and his face already seen isn't just trying to hide the fact that he has superspeed if he could he would use superspeed to topside them ASAP why doesn't he likely because he can't he doesn't have the power the people assume that he does at this time now second after the oil rig Clark comes ashore shirtless shoeless and his pants in tatters his secret is still important so he needs a disguise to maintain the appearance of normalcy something that isn't maintained by asking for the clothing in that state so Clark takes the clothing it is an out of physical necessity but to preserve his secret however if Clark could fly he could at least temporarily hide his nakedness in the clouds with flight until unacceptable disguise presented itself or of Clark could move it speeds that render him undetectable or unidentifiable that he wouldn't have to take these close what he that might give new meaning to the word streak but he wouldn't need clothes to hide if he had his speed to hide with or to get him close obtained without moral compromise like from goodwill now third there's the flashback to the bus rescue which allows us asked the question if Clark could perform the entire rescue unseen why wouldn't he and then forth is Jonathan's serious concern over Clark's secrecy every version of Jonathan wants to protect Clark's secret but Jonathan's concerns are doubly justified in Man of Steel for two reasons first Clark was actually caught using his powers and seen this isn't a mere hypothetical case as it was for most of the other Jonathan's here there is a clear and present an actual danger of discovery and second Clark doesn't have the same flight and speed abilities that we've seen from other versions if Clark can fly he can always escape if Clark can be invisibly fast he can keep his secret safe in the small bill TV show Clark was so fast that he could essentially stop time and in one episode he foils the kidnapping and murder attempt while on the football field and about to be tackled before hundreds of witnesses with all eyes on him the quarterback not to mention the player about the tackle him Clark runs off the field saves Chloe runs back into place to be tackled and no one is the wiser being him to move that fast without detection would reasonably mitigate concerns about secrecy Jonathan's concerns in Man of Steel are more in line with somebody without those powers this is the hitchhiking to Ellesmere if Clark can fly well why hitchhike or if Clark could run there in the blink of an eye undetected why wouldn't he is Lois later writes a background check revealed that his work history and identity had been falsified so clearly Clark did not want to leave behind evidence of his comings and goings so rather than leaving a truck driver witness why not just appear and Ellesmere unless you can't six we have the job at Ellesmere if Clark could zip around invisibly and interact with objects harmlessly in the way that rescuing Jonathan requires if you're going to connect with him at invisibly fast speeds then why would Clark bother with creating a false identity and working as Joe at all he could simply zip through the camp observe or grab whatever information he's looking for an no one would be the wiser unless it's wrong to assume that he can do that as a lesser point Clark makes his way to the scout ship by strolling rather than running arguably because moving it human speeds is more discrete than trying to move at his fastest yet nonetheless observable top speed maybe even it Feodor's passes for example she still quite observable and somebody moving like that might attract way more attention than somebody just on the stroll maybe the point is a bit undercut by Clark's light clothing but perhaps it's not as bitterly cold as Hardy threatened as we've already discussed and maybe Clark did his best impersonation of solid stake to get that far now it's not exactly its own point but we've yet to see a scene in Man of Steel where Superman interacts with something at high-speed harmlessly is no use getting to Jonathan instantly if you can't touch or move him without tearing him apart before we got to the tornado scene Clark gets blessed with the gift of flight and with its speed truly incredible speed later in the film he can be clocked at nearly 900 times the speed of sound and with a bit of tongue-in-cheek math he travels at about 1.5% the speed of light in another feet but that's another show the film shows us before the tornado scene that even the very air makes violent sonic booms when he rips through it say nothing of his father which brings us to the scene itself seventh is the tornado scene if Clark could invisibly and harmlessly rescue Jonathan without consequence why wouldn't he right rather than condemn Clark Fork callousness might be reasonably question the assumption the Clark even could rescue Jonathan in that way now recognize that there are far more and other criticisms of that scene but will get to them eventually I promise where just not there yet however as long as were talking about Clark's limitations and assumptions about his powers and the tornado scene let's tackle Clark's durability in the context of the scene so the basis of many other criticisms of either Jonathan or Clark or the filmmakers in this scene has to do with the essential assumption about Clark's capabilities and durability the criticism takes many forms and relies on many different moral calculations such as utilitarianism but the argument can go something like this Jonathan shouldn't have gone to rescue Hank or Clark should have let Jonathan rescue Hank because Clark is invulnerable I'm hesitant to even raise this high drug because like I said there are a dozen subtle variations on this in terms of reasoning strategy empathy and so on and I am intentionally wording the critique this way to simply address at least one point of assumption underlying many similar points that I do not pretend that there aren't more nuanced ways to forward this criticism those other ways just aren't illustrative for my purposes right now in this narrow and limited discussion again will tackle it all eventually but for now let me ask this how do we know or why can we assume that Jonathan knows that Clark would survive the tornado it's really easy to fall into cognitive bias and assume that Jonathan knows at this point in time something that we've known from years of tradition and expectation outside media or even other parts of this film that will privy to for example Jor-El suggesting that Cal Al would be uncountable or Clark's durability feats in the oil rig but let's look at this logically let's have some empathy and use our imaginations and then look at things from Jonathan's perspective at this point in time here they clearly know that Clark has powers they know about the strength the senses and the heat vision how do we the audience know that they know anything about durability frankly we don't a little later in the film we learn that teenage Clark was at least physically bully proof that there is a great golf a difference between not being worried about being bruised by a bully and imagining yourself invulnerable in the face of the tornado I'm still doing the research on where the tornado in Man of Steel sits on the enhanced for Gina scale but suffice to say it had the energy to throw cars into the air and that isn't something people experience on a regular basis so how do you determine how durable you are it's easy to say testing but when you're physiology defies science as we know it testing beyond a certain point is more reckless than reasonable and more fantasy than factual in 2006 NBC launched a prime time science fiction drama called heroes which at least initially began with the premise of ordinary people in the real world discovering that they had superpowers in the vein of mainstream comic books one of the main characters in this ensemble was Claire a 15-year-old cheerleader from Texas who tests and documents her abilities to regenerate by throwing herself off multi-story structures I enjoyed the show for what it was at the time but I'm sorry that's incredibly stupid it's all fine and dandy if she keeps surviving the tests of what happens if she doesn't how did she know the terminal velocity isn't her kryptonite later in the series she discovers that injuries to her brain is a limitation on her power however her approach to testing could've easily ended in tragedy it was stupid and to be fair to the show teenagers are sometimes stupid however in Man of Steel we see that Clark doesn't keep these kinds of things secret from his parents he's Frank with them even as his most frustrated after four years of playing it safe after the bus incident so his parents are partners in his powers and Jonathan always want to protect Clark and while that might manifest itself in measured tests of his durability I'm more inclined to believe that meant treating Clark like he was normal and that seems more consistent with Clark's statement about playing it safe and the fact that he doesn't discover flight until after meeting Jor-El this is completely saying in fiction one typically discovers the extent of their powers by way of accident impulse or idiocy in an accident the test was unavoidable so the hero learns that they can survive a car accident or a great fall for example in small bill Clark learns a he's durable when Lex Luther hits him with his sports car and they careen off the bridge into the water below in the 2000 film unbreakable David Dunn survives a train crash which causes him to ask questions with impulse the hero doesn't know what their limits are but nonetheless tests them because of an overriding interest like saving some which in turn uncovers some limits for example in Superman the animated series Clark survives an explosion while trying to rescue some people trapped in a burning vehicle in Superman unchained issue nine Martha is genuinely upset at somebody pointing a shock on the Clark and Clark gets shot trying to protect her in idiocy the test is completely avoidable but the hero assumes that they can and will survive it and for the sake of the story they do but the outcome could have gone the other way shortly after Clark survives the accident in small bill he bent his frustrations at his abnormality to Jonathan by thrusting his hand into a wood chipper mangling the machine but leaving his arm unscathed Jonathan is clearly shocked meaning he wasn't certain that Clark could survive that Clark was foolish to do that because the forces involved in a car accident are different than those inside it would chipper nonetheless despite the irrationality of the test it does act as a feet and before we gave the example of clear from heroes intentionally falling from several stories up with Man of Steel taking place and ostensibly the real world neither Jonathan nor Clark would be so melodramatic as to have him throw himself off a grain silo throw himself into a thresher or shoot himself with a shotgun to test his durability and even if they did some testing would they go so far or even have the capability to test threats on the same order of the attitude and energy as a natural disaster I really don't think so it's an assumption either way the Jonathan and Clark played it safe like he said he was tired of doing or that they somehow had a full appreciation of Clark's invulnerability an absolute certainty that he could and would survive a tornado however I think the lack of certainty is more consistent with realistic behavior and what we see in the film and is more persuasive not knowing whether he tornado could possibly kill Clark changes the calculus considerably from assuming certain knowledge of invulnerability as a fact and it's an important distinction or nuance the critics don't bother to make or take for granted which is profoundly unfair to the filmmakers and the characters as presented in the movie judging characters based on information that they don't have ended the filmmakers intentionally didn't give to the characters I'm unwittingly getting sucked into more tornado scene topics but if we imagine that Jonathan thinks that Clark could be killed and raised him that way it may put into perspective yet another criticism about the in elegance of that scene many believed that Clark learns that man is mortal and that he needs to learn powerlessness through Jonathan's death and therefore they preferred the simplicity and elegance of a heart attack identity fun to say about that but for now consider whether Clark needs to learn about mortality and power limits if in Man of Steel he's lived with that understanding his whole life there's a bit of a disconnect to say the film should have imposed a lesson from a different continuity upon the Clark that grew up with it as a given from Martha we know that there was a fragility to Clark's breathing as an infant years of pain and difficulty adapting as a child pain from sensory attacks and the emotional pain of secrecy and isolation all without ever knowing his limits Clark's suffering never gave him the illusion of invulnerability or invincibility Clark was viscerally aware of the meaning of mortality life and death which is why he sacrifices his sacred secret and all the beer and the isolation in consequences that would come with such revelation for the sake of the lives of his schoolmates he wasn't harboring under the illusion that they'd survive without intervention this is consistent with common sense and somebody who lives on a farm get at the same time Clark is tangibly aware of his limits he never has the hubris to need the death of Jonathan to tell him that his powers can't fix everything because Jonathan has drilled into him that his powers as wonderful as they are aren't enough to fix everything such as the world's reaction to his secret if anything his powers tend to compound the issue this Clark is consistently humble throughout the film he doesn't need a lesson on the limitation of his powers in this way in fact he simply isn't that powerful to begin with not to say that he isn't physically powerful he is but physical power has limited real power in the real world in some sense perhaps an allegory for America's military might but that's another show for another time Jonathan never really remarks on Clark's ability to physically impose his will upon the world through his powers Jonathan seems to reinforce the idea that Clark's real impact comes from the Revelation of his origins his existence his purpose for being and the nature of his character again not his power as powerful as Superman is in this film he's nowhere near the godlike fantasy of precrisis Superman or even Donner Superman with the cosmic power to turn back time reversed death itself and wipe memories with the kiss that Superman needed a lesson in limitation which of course was undermined by the film's conclusion but that commentary for another show thrusting and unneeded lesson in humility upon this Clark seems a heavy-handed misunderstanding of where Clark was as a character which isn't to say that the tornado scene is devoid of lessons it actually has many but that's another show and I think of already spent way too much time tackling tornado related topics in an Ellesmere episode like I said we may have to come back you probably forgotten I nearly have but we got onto all of this talk about Clark's limitations because of the obstacle presented by the sentry robot Ivanova hear about the century as a sperm but I have no idea what I meant I guess it looks like one Clark had to fight it may be will come back to me later the sentry's tentacles seems to be made of liquid Geo and that might explain in part why krypton may have relied on liquid Geo display technology when they have the capability to project high fidelity holograms like Jor-El liquid Geo asked not only as a display technology but is something with the versatility to form a physical interface tools like the tentacles or even objects like the command key that kind of utility and versatility may be worth a trade in visual fidelity additionally there seems to be a certain tangible fragility to the holograms as demonstrated by carved backs scattering it when she punched through it when Clark manages to hit the command key the century ceases hostilities and Clark catches a glimpse of Jor-El and again this should be intriguing to the audience Clark doesn't know who this is but we do and we saw this man die think the filmmakers are careful to show Jor-El's death despite the planet blowing up shortly after because otherwise some might be confused and believe that he's there in reality so I want to wrap this episode tackling one last criticism which has a die genic dimension as well as creative commentary in this issue is whether Clark is culpable for Zonta crimes does Clark bear responsibility and blame for the damage and harm caused by Zide because he allegedly brought Zonta earth is a question that characters in the DCC you will ask and that the audience might ask I'm not can a pretend the law is the sum total of moral philosophy of the we will get into that eventually for other topics the law serves as a useful lens by which we apply moral principles and actual facts to put it another way philosophers theologians or politicians may argue about the rational underpinnings of why something is moral or not but to actually use it in our day-to-day lives we can't start all over from Ground Zero and Reform moral philosophy in each and every case rather we condense it all into workable laws or codes which try to embody those beliefs and then we have judges and juries jurisprudence and due process to fill in the gaps and cover what the code cannot so in using the law were talking about whether it is fair or reasonable to blame Clark were talking about justice not just consequences as a consequence of what happened some people of course can in fact do attach blame to Clark for Zide in fact anyone can be blamed for anything if we remove fairness justice or reason from the equation begets for example are no strangers to scapegoating however were not talking about whether somebody could blame Clark but whether it's fair justifiable blame or culpability attaches when there is a wrongful act and a wrongful mental state together being the closely tied cause of the harm generally all of that must come together for somebody to be culpable for example just because you only imagine a piano falling on your annoying neighbor you wouldn't be culpable because there was no wrongful act all you did was imagine it or if you were properly doing demolition and you checked your drop zone before pushing a piano out of the building if that neighbor was harmed because he stepped into the cordoned off the drop zone after the piano was freefalling you wouldn't be culpable because your mindset was careful in the harm was unintentional the action could become wrongful if the mindset is wrongful if you saw your neighbor in the drop zone and let the piano fall or if you saw your neighbor distractedly texting and could reasonably expect that he might enter the drop zone or viewer to simply drop the piano without even checking the drop zone those would be wrongful mindsets the action and the mindset have to actually cause and be proximate to the harm and there must be a harm you can want your neighbor dead by way of falling piano and let a PN oh fall but if your neighbor was vacationing safely in Sydney there is no harm to be culpable for an even if by some curious twist of fate your neighbor was hit by a different piano and harmed at the exact same moment that you wished him ill and dropped your PNO you would not be culpable because you didn't cause the heart we can see that the action has to be a free will choice if you were forced at gunpoint to drop the piano while under duress you wouldn't be culpable instead the gun man would be culpable or if after you release the piano and it was free falling out of your control the neighbor leapt into the drop zone and was hurt you also wouldn't be culpable because you can't control your neighbor's actions applied to Man of Steel Clark had no choice or free well in being naturally born in having the codecs bonded to him and in being sent to earth there was no action much less intention on Clark's part those all resulted from Jor-El and children do not have a choice in who their biological fathers are or what they do when their infants the circumstances of his birth and immigration that made it desirable for Zonta come to earth are no more Clark's fault than anyone could or should be blamed for the color of their skin okay fair enough but when did Clark have the choice when did Clark take action and the crux of this argument comes from's odds lines where he says that he journeyed across an ocean of stars to reach Cal Al and then to Clark he says for 33 years we prepared until we finally detected a distress beacon which you triggered when you accessed the ancient scout ship you let us hear Cal so Zide lays out the chain of causation Clark accessed the ship which triggered a distress begin which Zide detected and which led Zonta earth in that sense yes Clark led Zonta earth but Clark did not literally lead Zonta earth as in intentionally make contact with Zide determined that it would be a good idea for Zonta come to earth and agree to show Zide the way to earth the latter case is factually completely different from what actually happened in the question is whether there is a moral or legal difference and of course there is in the second case Clark is actively and intentionally and knowingly leading Zonta earth and thus possibly culpable in the first case scene in the film Clark's only free will action is to access the ship Clark didn't know about or intend for the distress signal's odds receipt of that signal loves arrival in's odds subsequent actions he merely accessed the ship something that the military was inevitably going to do anyways says that clark triggered the distress begin not that clark transmitted it or intended it no to that zide calls it a distress beacon now consider the possible sources of the distress signal it could come from the ship or the command key and neither makes sense after the insertion of the command key if the ship is calling to kryptonian's for aid the command key itself indicates that the kryptonian's are here that's why the century ceases hostilities once the key is fully inserted so there's no need to call for what has already arrived if the command key is the alleged source of the signal well jor-el forge the key with instructions for cal al after the presumed destruction of krypton even if there were miraculous survivors jor-el did not even trust himself and lara to join cal al on his journey to earth much less anyone else from krypton jor-el held this conviction at the expense of his own life jor-el would not have coded the command key to send a distress signal to a people that he believed to be dead or who my compromise his sons ability to demonstrate free will and act as a bridge between peoples so much more likely and reasonably the ship sent the distress beacon upon initial breach of the ship security its logical to call out for the kryptonian's for help when none are present meaning no command key and when your security is being preached by your century robots being engaged this means that even if clark had never been on earth the military was already uncovering and investigating the scout ship they would have eventually breached its hall encountered it century drones and triggered a distress signal just like clark did the only difference is that clark's actions equipped him to deal with zide whereas if the military had tripped the signal all hope would've been lost's odd would've come for the genesis chamber and to investigate a viable candidate for terraforming if nothing else the fact the military was also going to do the exact same act shows that there was no duty of care being preached in other words you can pretty easily dismiss any allegations that clark intended or news odd was coming but you could still make an argument that clark was negligent or reckless in our piano dropping hypothetical that would be like not checking the drop zone carefully first or at all before letting that piano fly now how do we know that that is negligence or recklessness we look for a standard of care to see what duty the accused has to follow we look at how people doing demolition are reasonably expected to act here in this case were dealing with an almost completely novel situation so there is no standard per se but nonetheless we see that the military would have also accessed the ship and today we has scientists who intentionally beam out signals into space without regard for hostile extraterrestrials so clark's behavior does not appear to be out of line in fact clark perhaps has a little more information than the military to justify his access of the ship from clark's perspective the only additional insight that he has is that if this ship is related to him and his people his people sent a vulnerable asthmatic infant to a distant world not exactly the actions of an aggressive militant race believing in a baby-based blitzkrieg burdens basic common sense clark has never been contacted his entire life and he may be aware that the ship predates human civilization he doesn't know that his vessel brought him to earth traveling faster than light gives no reason to believe that stepping onto that ship would summon his people or the his people would be hostile however reasonable minds can differ and maybe you believe that some argument for negligence or recklessness might attached to those arguments can be made however they get superseded by's odds intentional actions as an intervening cause in other words even if you can argue accident or carelessness by clark culpability attaches to zide because his crimes were intentional back to our piano example if you accidentally leave your demolition site unlocked and unknown to you a psychopath uses that access to drop a piano on your neighbor the culpability for the harm to the neighbor is on the psychopath not you by the same token's odds intentional acts make him blameworthy not clark now there is definitely for that we can talk about in terms of proximate cause vicarious liability collective responsibility blaming victims and more but i've got to wrap this up no time for mail back today but hopefully soon there have been some really thought-provoking topics raised by some of our listeners you guys are awesome like you said i'm going to be on business for a couple of weeks i'm so excited it seems that we have an official date for the trailer and i can't wait to break that one down aren't i think i've rambled on long enough man of steel answers insight commentary is a proud member of the superman podcast network so here are some promos for the network shows that i suggest you check out if you want to extend your enjoyment of the superman mythos got it together from the far reaches of beings that are assembled and that's what got dedicated to the bust greatest superhero is covered superman like featuring superman is the dc comics crisis superman podcast is superman this you will is superman forever and about the you you you you are you will podcast kl from superman homepage.com is john wilson really help you are leaving my present bat your retailer michael they start to sam result is the mario is given by an highlighted i gave younis and how has gotti they because that what thanks so much soliciting i just love discussing the stuff and if you been sticking with me i know you do to i'm genuinely grateful for each and every listener and hope you'll join me@manofsteelofsteelanswers.com that way got a question that you want answered or insight you want to share commentary to make you can post in the comments for all your like-minded apologist to see you can email me@manofsteelofsteelanswers.com if you like what you heard please review the show in itunes and subscribed this is dr. awkward your dc cinematic universe apologist signing off cnx time that answers with the discovery and now coexistence of an alien from another world humanity is approaching the dawn of the new age is already revealed how we are hardwired to doubt in this trust what we do understand put in the simplest of terms doesn't superman embody everything remarkable about the american dream is the ultimate immigrant a refugee from another planet who is been raised is one of us as much as he is kryptonian is also human and his chosen to help our world not overtaken the cultural impact of this extraterrestrial contact is ongoing how would this change are science and technology are religious beliefs politics will there be interplanetary travel to discovering worlds peoples all we know for certain is that the introduction of superman has forever changed the course of human history of answers