Man of steel answers insight commentary episode 35 Batman be Superman trailer two or I will ask the obvious question start asking questions and answers welcome to Man of Steel answers insight commentary on your DC see you apologist Dr. awkward I cover a mosaic of topics for fans who love discussing the Man of Steel and the DC cinematic universe together will endeavor to answer the questions criticisms and controversies raised by the DC movie Slate and those eagerly anticipating the cinematic universe this episode we break down and analyze the second Batman be Superman trailer will address some concerns and then wrap with some speculation this podcast dives deep into the DCC you to answer the critics and the confused the show is not meant to convert anybody but the celebrate the films that make up the DC cinematic universe reasonable minds will differ but this is a show for fans who love the DC EU and who love to chew their food welcome back were going to get into that analysis and the content of that trailer right away and then were to go back and discuss some of the larger topics like market strategy and the reception to the trailer at the end my overall impression is that this trailer contain a lot of great content but had a confronting presentation that's more indicative of the marketing goals than a reflection of the film maybe a concise way to put this is that this was a story trailer meant to set expectations for the general audience and it provides the most content between the teaser the comic on trailer and the sneak peek but it's probably the least representative of the film style that the other day we seem less than seven minutes of the film in total that's 5% of the film relax so relax but for now let's just get right into it and start with the big picture to give us a cinematic lens that first teaser was for tone and atmosphere and then the comic on trailer will that was the hero trailer it reinforce that tone while building up the world and the heroes but the second trailer this is the villain trailer it establishes the villains and it builds up the story which is going to challenge the heroes and bring them into conflict if you view it broadly under this umbrella than a lot of the choices the tone and discomfort start to make some sense the focus of this trailer isn't the film as a whole were not going home to small bill were not being romantic with Lois Bruce isn't being comforted by Alfred in our heroes are getting congratulated by Congress this trailer was largely driven by the points of the story which cause discord and conflict Clark and Bruce aren't seeing I'd I Lex Luther's brewing machinations Superman and Batman fighting and then finally the introduction of that third act threat this trailer can be seen as an extension or a reflection of our villains the wild swings in tone without regard for convention or form bouncing from humor to deadly seriousness will that's reflective of Lex Luther's personality and are hero shots are fractured cut up and the move-in stutter steps like the walking dead recycled and reformed and reanimated like general sod the entire Frankenstein feel the tearing down of what came before the powerful revelations the access the shot in the all that all reflects doomsday maybe how does wonder woman fit into all this will may be more on that later let's just get right into the actual breakdown we open with establishing shot of Chicago's broad art Museum with a line of luxury cars in front of a red carpet event Bruce Wayne pulls up driving and Aston Martin DB Mark three exemplifying his wealth class and understated taste I point out the car because on my first viewing Bruce doesn't get out of the car in till Clark asks who is that so I thought for a moment that Clark's attention like mine was on the car and that Bruce Clark and I were all car guys but a more careful inspection however the scene is cut with a trivial continuity issue basically when Clark asks the question Bruce's already standing on the red carpet only cut back Bruce's getting out of the car again for the purposes of the trailer that makes for a better illustration of who Bruce Wayne is and that is a lot throughout when the dialogue is saying one thing something else appears that suggests or reinforces the line just standard trailer stuff like I'm supposed to say something about Bruce driving himself but I don't have anything to say it's unclear whether Clark genuinely doesn't recognize Bruce Wayne or whether he's playing to a secret identity until we get a little more context I would make a big deal out of it now incidentally do you know what Carlos Slim Halo or a Monaco Ortega look like they routinely trade places with Bill Gates for being the richest person on this planet all of their fortunes are self-made incidentally if you can't bring their face to mind glass houses and all your having a difficult day who if nothing else I can at least learn the flash secret identity I have no idea who this is knowing what you proves that you don't kill you've made your point Bruce Wayne now as Bruce Wayne anyways the photographer who says you must be new doesn't seem to know Clark or that he's new so he's probably not daily planet cub reporter and photographer Jimmy Olsen know that mercy is standing behind him perhaps keeping an eye down the red carpet for Bruce on Lex's behalf inside Clark makes first contact and he asks what's your position on the bat vigilante in Gotham Bruce's searching Clark spacelike what's your agenda and he gives this great smirk incidentally I actually love Clark's question which is just about as neutral as possible although some may say that vigilante has a negative connotation it really depends since vigilantism is implied spring up only when and where necessary and he can carry a positive connotation if you believe existing law enforcement to be inadequate why not say Batman will there's a school of thought that utilizing a name legitimizes that entity for example when the military starts to call him Superman it's because he's their Superman not saying that I agree with that but it's an approach it takes a certain amount of integrity to commit to and indeed Clark doesn't in his
which although it's objectively true clearly comes from a position civil liberties are being trampled in our city people living in fear he thinks he's a both the law so Clark's it laying out his position which gets supported somewhat by the imagery we see the chained up bruised bleeding and branded criminal clearly interrogation of his civil rights and then the cover of the Gotham Free Press that punny headline that brand of justice now note the editorializing by the headline Gotham still views this as justice even if Clark is technically right and if you were living in terror because of that criminal maybe you'd be willing to see Batman beat and brand for some sense of security so already there's a tension between Clark's ideal of justice in what some of the people of Gotham say that they want now incidentally the's on the top of the paper are nonsensically arranged they don't translate into a year anything else now another world building point is that if the Gotham Free Press has the bat in its headline and Clark can raise him in an interview without being laughed at the Batman has probably transcended urban legend this is something that intelligent people can talk about or publish on now speaking of legends we get the gorgeous daytime shot of Superman statue in the BZ E Memorial we see tokens of remembrance flags flowers candles and pictures collected at the base of the wall with people hanging their heads observant Lake while the rest the world treats it as a normal Park one double amputee in a wheelchair looks up at the statue and perhaps he's played by scoot McNary will go back to the conversation and Bruce replies back the daily planet criticizing those who think there above the law is hypocritical wouldn't you say considering every time your hero saves a cat out of a tree you write a puff piece editorial about an alien who can burn the whole place down so we don't know how the conversation has been edited if at all for this trailer but a few interesting things about Bruce's response in terms of salience it's not exactly Bruce is switching tracks and topics and launching into an attack on the daily planet in Superman which has no immediate bearing on Clark's position on Batman or even his own in literal fact it may be hypocritical but only if Superman is actually doing anything above the law now broadly speaking rescuing people is legal contrast that against apprehending and branding criminals which is clearly illegal however Bruce sort of has a point in that Superman's power is perhaps unchecked which makes him a law unto himself and therefore in that limited sense about the law Bruce seems to be pointing out that that potentiality is being placated by disproportionately trivial good deeds like saving cats from out of trees and is someone who often has to mediate a lot of disagreements for a living what's interesting to me is that like a lot of my clients their actually both saying much the same thing but without necessarily realizing roughly speaking the concerns about denying people the civil liberties is what if you take these measures against somebody who is innocent or undeserving and Batman's essential responses trust me they're not innocent and similarly the concern about Superman's extreme unchecked power is what if you were to turn and use this against us and Superman's essential responses trust me I won't turn against you so the root of their issue is trust and it's going to be resolved by trust eventually the visuals and the dialogue are also reinforcing that general dichotomy and classification Batman as a police man and Superman as a fireman it's an imperfect analogy but it's still a valuable illustration which we won't get into here but let's see how the trailer reinforces it were shown the results of that ends police like intervention crime stopping and apprehending and then he's backed up by Gotham's finest who complete the process by recovering and booking the criminal for Superman were shown his reaction to crisis is like emergency rescue services he saving people from the rocket explosion from the flawed and in a prior trailer actually turns over a rescue we to fireman indeed Bruce acknowledges that local fireman classic of saving cats from trees which has its place across the Superman mythos in the comics TV and film so if you didn't already know at this trailer is subconsciously priming you to understand how each hero approaches their duty or tackles a crisis now on that front Bruce's being a little disingenuous by highlighting saving a From trees which the Superman may or may not have done but while he saying that were provided with visual evidence of much more substantial interventions against major disasters both man-made and natural so we know that Bruce's position on this is skewed he's misrepresenting Superman's contribution similar to how Clark calls Batman a terror even if some Gotham-ites college justice we all have our biases in our blind spots and Bruce and Clark are no different Bruce's response also reveals that he's aware of Clark Kent or at least the daily planet and their position on Superman so he's been keeping tabs not just directly on Superman but how others are reacting to or reporting on Superman Bruce isn't just sitting in his echo chamber he knows how the people think the Clark seems to need to check on this and he points out most the world doesn't share your opinion Mr. Wayne now if Clark were making a legitimate argument he be engaging in the appeal to authority which is further taking this argument off the rails but this isn't a contest of logic or debate this is an interview where he's trying to prompt answers and probe his subjects mind that he's doing a brilliant job because he's getting under Bruce's skin and let's just quickly pause to say that if we take Clark's statement at face value as an accurate assessment of what the status quo is that lines up with our predictions throughout the course of this podcast that by and large the world trusts Superman enough to allow him to operate Superman knows that he has detractors doubters but he is in acting against the will of the world overall Bruce however is clearly one of those detractors maybe it's the Gotham city and me but we just have a bad history with freaks dressed as clowns I love the delivery of this line because of him looking away and looking Clark up and down and then just staring him in the eye it's starkly ambiguous you can see him immediately busting out laughing in the just claiming that it was a joke or leaping forth to throttle Clark or just doing nothing at all now we know there's something seething underneath all this but Bruce's trying to play it as gallows humor referencing the notorious Joker as comparable to Superman and that the juicy reference to a larger world and mythology not a comparison is as implausible as it is unflattering and it's difficult the sympathize with the idea that somebody who's murdering people in the streets of Gotham is comparable to somebody who's saves the entire planet and dedicates the next two years of his life to saving people but it shows us where Bruce's head is at he's bearing and identifiably unreasonable grudge which is colored his thinking and what's interesting about that is that he's wearing this all on his sleeve as Bruce now there's a couple ways to interpret this one way is that he knows who Clark is and is specifically trying to elicit a reaction out of him another way you could take this is that this is an older Bruce who has earned his gray hairs and doesn't have to put up as much of a façade as he did in his you he doesn't have to play the role of the billionaire playboy airhead but he could be a cantankerous and opinionated older man who doesn't care of his views align with society fax or reason the older Bruce in Batman beyond or the dark Knight returns didn't bother with the same kind of social niceties as the Bruce in the animated series or in Batman begins so we get to have a Bruce with a little more gravity to him who is a force to reckon with as well and that makes our next character Lex Luther holder more insufferable whatever respect Bruce may have earned the years Lex disregards it by flamboyantly calling them boys Lex seemingly has no regard for solemnity gravity and he explodes into the trailer to cut the tension between Clark and Bruce and we are left to wonder slightly what would've happened if he had Lex recognizes both his guests he credits himself to bring them together and he makes pleasantries reading Bruce shakes his hand and mumbles lacks showing that they are familiar with one another however with Clark Lex offers his name meaning that this the first time that Clark and Lex had never met his jokes about Clark script and the two of them fighting either indicate his awareness of their identities or it simply dramatic irony for the audience's sake I admit I chuckled a bit this betrayal of Lex is consistent with the one that was celebrating the coming of the red capes and who heralded the battle to come part of the reason to make Bruce a more sincere personality is to create space for this character of Lex was over the top hyperactive high-pitched energetic and lively plays well to contrast against Clark's Stoic professionalism and Bruce's crime cynicism can you imagine if Bruce was a bubbly him bow and Lex was this bouncy so the filmmakers knew how to balance their characters for this film and the justice league beyond now whether that performance ultimately works out or not for me it's going to come down to his larger plan to me it's clear that this scene is part of Lex's performance and his plant perhaps there's a little bit of so where all putting on faces well let me show you how to put on a face boys maybe I think he is this person but not all the way not all the time more in every circumstance we've already heard his quieter lines and is more menacing behavior so I'm personally going to believe that there is calculation in this that Lex isn't just a psychotic mustache twirler in the facts established that he is brilliant I mean he transformed his business into something capable of commanding the respect the government and that kind of brilliance doesn't have to manifest itself as just another stuffy Stoic businessman however I do need to be convinced of his brilliance and that can be a high in a difficult bar we discussed in the past how it's really hard to write highly intelligent characters without resorting to something that compromises that intelligence Zide being a product of his programming genetics cultural and personal Batman suffering from trauma and a benign form of insanity hopefully Lex Luther's plans can be rationalized and are persuasive and I still maintain that Lex probably has a better grasp of the entire picture than anyone else and I think that includes a painful level of self-awareness he has lines that reflect a certain personal insight and understanding of his own Faustian brokering okay so where halfway through the trailer and from here it takes an odd turn into throwing everything at us in crazy quick succession including this stuttering at it which lets them condensed footage we've already seen but which is really jarring and unpleasant my opinion but fortunately we already know that this is and how they play out in the film it just seems that they had so much they wanted to show us without the time to luxuriate in the shots so they use this percussive edit technique we get hit with an onslaught of images old and new and a smattering of lines and I think the best approach is first to use the dialogue is an outline and just tackle the new images so here we go you know what the oldest lie in America is Sen. now this one fascinating because Lex delivered the same line in the comic on trailer quietly in his abode with a different answer that doubles don't come from the ground beneath us they come from the sky now here Lex is delivering the line in the halls of the Capitol building or anyone might hear him and he concludes that the lie is that power can be innocent this delivery is louder more energetic and more cheeky I'm curious whether this is a replacement for the previous scene or whether it's a reprisal or a call back for example the many origins of Joker scars the dark Knight Lex might have the compulsion to say this with different answers as the mood or the scenario fits him alternatively in might be trying to reconcile what the devil is in Lex's mind to more consistently cast Superman as a deity or demon rather than mix those metaphors now confronting a senator on her home turf and in person does make Lex a little more proactive rather than just eccentric he's hands-on doing this himself rather than through back channels lobbyists phone calls back room deals we get a brief glimpse of Sen. Finch and this time with a name placard and she's wearing blue which suggests that she's going to be chairing at least two hearings in this film the investigation while she is in white and then likely the announcement of their findings when she's wearing blue now quick comment about his answer is interesting to his response that power can be innocent includes self-condemnation I mean Lex Luther is undoubtably powerful himself the Sen. is powerful Superman is powerful and yet logically extended he's casting doubt on the moral authority to think about it some more but I'm a little skeptical about his answers though it seems to be sort of a restatement of Lord Acton's famous remarks which isn't an American idea or lie and indeed the nation seem to be founded on principles which were skeptical of undivided unbalanced and unchecked powers so food for thought later of the
is you're going to go to war which we very heard for the images are new we get to see a black Jeep renegade cut off when a stray missile explodes across Fort Street in an F-22 crashes into a building and I just want to take a second to point out that both in small bill and in metropolis the US military designated those to be battlegrounds with acceptable risk of casualties this wasn't Superman causing desiring or excepting collateral damage in either location this was Superman deferring to the expertise of people who've made warfare their profession if a fireman tells you that you can have to leave your documents behind if you want to get out safely and alive you deferred to their expertise and regrettably follow their directions the firemen doesn't want you to lose your documents but he knows the risks he prioritizes your life and he advises you accordingly if you lack a sophisticated understanding of structural fire and its dangers you'd be foolish to oppose the advice for the sake of your documents likewise the military didn't want A-10s and F-22's falling out of the sky onto civilian populations but they knew the risks of not engaging the enemy so they okay the mission and everyone was advised accordingly authorized you you you you want to you as Superman doesn't know anything about military strategy acceptable losses or the theater of war it would be ridiculous and naïve of him to tell professional experts in the field that there should be no collateral damage whatsoever in order to achieve their goal at no point did Superman do something that the US military had already accepted or proved as a potential consequence of something that they would've done themselves flying fighters against a hostile over civilian airspace means the possibility of down the planes crashing into that same civilian population the military deemed it necessary risk their not blind to the possibility of collateral in the battle a small bill Col. Hardy calls for an airstrike even knowing that he's danger close and at risk of becoming collateral to that airstrike it's that in their professional expertise they opined the risk necessary and this goes a long way towards explaining why the world attitude is more grateful toward Superman than concerned with collateral like some real world detractors if Superman's behavior is completely in line with what those who are tasked to protect them would do and did in fact do themselves there is very little rational basis on which to criticize Superman except under some unrealistic imaginary and unseen standard that doesn't exist in this world the US military did the things that their expertise believed would result in minimal overall casualties and maximum protection for all and Superman was well within that note that the accusation Batman levels in response agrees that son of a bitch brought the war to us now Batman's grievance isn't really in anything that Superman did or failed to do he takes issue with Superman's mere existence and potentiality Batman blames Superman not for how he acted in the black zero event but that his existence led to the black zero event ever occurring earlier in the trailer Bruce attack Superman not for anything that he's actually done but only for what he is an might do an alien that can burn the whole place down contrast that against Clark's allegations that Batman is trampling civil liberties which is an accusation of active wrongdoing generally the latter is more fair but the stakes are potentially higher in the form regardless at least from this exchange Batman doesn't fault Superman's action but he still felt Superman's very being treated to additional shots of the BZ E over metropolis from Bruce's perspective really giving us the weight of how astonishing this must've been from a ground-level view that said don't make the mistake of believing that everyone witness to be event was psychologically traumatized not can a get into it now but there's research into how Londoners psychologically thrived through and after the blitz being in bold and by surviving rather than shellshocked output links in the show notes if you want to account for return to normalcy and metropolis bouncing back precedent abounds throughout our war-torn history but enough of that the
Alford says you know you can't win this its suicide which may or may not be part of the same conversation but if it is it's an interesting nuance because in the comic on trailer Alfred acknowledges that Superman is not there enemy yet here he declares the fight suicide and that means that Alfred assesses the fight in Superman's favorite but not to the degree that Batman is merely stopped Alfred understands that Batman will push this to the point of his own demise irrespective of the fact that Superman is not there enemy and in that sense Alfred is absolving Superman a fault if Batman were to diet Superman's hand because he characterizes the death is a suicide blaming Batman's self-destructive intentions and it should come as no surprise but sometimes comic book fans need a reminder the characters need not be perfect faultless and flawless to be interesting often quite the opposite so we get a shot of Batman and Superman standing off the rain and the flame and then we see Superman using his flight push Batman which cuts to Batman grappling down a dark multilevel structure and that we get a better look at the back jet followed by some deceptive editing meant to reinforce Lex is
the greatest gladiator match and history of the world son of krypton versus that of Gotham regarding the bat jet a recent video of a model indicates that it likely has VTOL or vertical takeoff and landing capability which enhances its versatility we see Batman blazing away so clearly he's comfortable with vehicle mounted weaponry and I personally advise listeners to start making themselves comfortable with the idea that Batman has no hangups about firearms or even lethal force necessarily at a minimum his weapons are firing live tracers so I don't know that we can excuse these as rubber bullets try to keep an open mind and pick up the story from where it is rather than come against it was some preconceived notions of what must be more on this will be gets doomsday later we get a shot of Superman in a hail of gunfire and a little bit of evidence that he's leveled up a little vehicle mounted weaponry could with his head back in Man of Steel and using heat vision was typically followed by a refractory period here once he steals himself he seems completely unaffected by the shots and he's able to uses heat vision in flight and doesn't seem to get dizzy or have to shake his head after using his heat vision of Is Lois on the rooftop of Lex we get the exchange your psychotic that's a three syllable word for any thought too big for little minds again I'm hoping that Lex earns these lines because right now there a little clunky but I'm optimistic that he'll have a big idea for me to embrace with my open-minded I enjoyed it Eisenberg is providing this consistent characterization of performance with his character as a hand talker and although he gesticulate's towards Lois he doesn't actually touch earn that consistent with his comic on trailer behavior is raised hand gives us a clearer view of the bandage on his hand and if the injury doesn't come from his own actions a wager that Lois was the one who did it may be regardless it's good to see Lois interacting with Lex because it means that she isn't just brush to the side but she's engaged the central villain and likely the central conflict there's definitely more going on in this little scene than meets the eye consider how Lois is in an interesting tension she's happy to insult Lex right to his face that apparently unable to physically take him on despite their close proximity she couldn't's waterways hand or push them away there's something keeping her in place and of course x-rays the possibility that Superman is under duress because Lex has Lois the idea of Lois is a pressure point for Superman is hardly new within the Superman tradition and not really worth getting upset over however it's unclear if that's what's happening here that's just part of the equation what is clear is that the film is trying to create layers of reasons for conflict beyond just a hostage situation take for example Batman's
it's time you learned what it means to be a man why is it time to learn that that can't be his entire motivation right but it does revealed that some part of Batman's resentment is in feeling that Superman can't relate to or empathize with humanity and that he needs to be humble however learning means not perish but acquiring and retaining knowledge and that suggests that a part of Batman doesn't intend to Superman's death what value is there to a lesson if it isn't retained long enough to be appreciate it so it seems that Superman might be more than just say convenient heavy bag for Batman to work out some issues anyways we see the Batmobile pole in front of the standing Superman and then Batman knocking on wrapped up Superman against a brick wall the spackling crumbling on impact and that we get a glimpse of desert action Batman and we'll talk about that later we had huge explosion and then we have Superman imploring Batman to stay down if I wanted it you'd be dead already rather clearly stating that he doesn't want Batman dead and equally clearly Lex wants someone debt is characterized it as gladiatorial combat and then he says it's man won't kill God the devil will do it it would seem that Batman fails or declines to kill Superman so Lex must bring his devil in to do however we still don't know or understand Lex's motivations are machinations just yet how or why this makes sense to do with the basis of his enmity against Superman and I'm happy to learn all of that eventually we get a reprisal of mercy walking's odds body but were given a little more context and we get Lex gleefully receiving this bounty at the end of the hall and then we get a shot from over the shoulder of the Superman Memorial at a giant white structure and my heart leaps of that because we all know what that is we discussed it just last episode the kryptonian scout ship if the logistics of moving it are impossible just deal with it where it is longtime listeners already know all the storytelling potential that the scout ship houses and represents and here we see arcing would lightning and giving life to Lex's devil we get an interior shot and Lex is fuming and furious which part of the reason that I'm expecting his performance to have range and not simply be that intentionally grading character of that interior shot is with in the scout ship with a mix of kryptonian in human technology inside remember on krypton there are no straight lines or metal so the object on the right of the screen is clearly humid on the left we see an operating floating century and even more curiously Superman standing calmly with his arms folded perhaps is returning to Lex after his encounter with Batman then we see even more evidence of working hybrid technology with a glimpse of doomsday's birthing matrix Superman says what have you done there's 20 substantive seconds left in the trailer and with a monstrous roar enter doomsday so before we go any further less discussed doomsday as a third act threat will discuss the decision to include him into the trailer later but for now let's talk about the choice to use doomsday at all and granted were yet to be told that this is a will be called doomsday but let's just go with that moniker now for the sake of convenience know for example that never in Man of Steel is the black zero actually name that dialogue but it's usefulness so we use it all the time so a quick three point roadmap on the defense of doomsday one this is an adaptation so set aside your preconceptions to this rendition can have somatic importance and three I believe doomsday's appearance will evolve so first like we always advise you with the show you should keep an open mind and do your best to set aside your prejudices and preconceptions of fictional entities before evaluating the merits of what's before you given the emotional weight and narrative tied to an icon like doomsday that might be hard for some but I implore you to try and to consider just how many adapted works since the dawn of comic book movies which diverge from their source material without detriment doomsday himself has been adapted to many different effects in different continuities from small bill justice league unlimited and the new 52 and if you find a name to loaded with meaning just discarded and call him Frank and Zide for all I care whatever it takes to help you clear your mind and if you do that honestly and earnestly with yourself you can abandon needless attachments to the death the Superman as inevitable or to judge the present fictional adaptation in front of you based on appearances in past works in two weeks generations of Star Wars fans are going to watch and enjoy the force awakens without regard for that alternate history laid out in what has now been branded legends those who can't let go suffer at the hands of their own obstinacy and inflexibility that's one of the major themes to the downfall of Zide and his inability to accept any other kind of krypton nothing requires or dictates that this adaptation of doomsday be bound by the follies of prior continuity if for example you think the doomsday has been boring and one-dimensional that has nominal bearing on whether this doomsday will be the same fictional characters are malleable storytelling tools Mr. freeze could be criticized as boring and one dimensional until heart of ice many of the flashes rogues were laughable until given compelling psychologies to believe a character must be a certain way without exception is unnecessarily limited or small minded you're entitled to your tastes in your preferences the wholesale rejection of the possibility of something new or different is just punishing yourself accepting doomsday in a different context isn't that difficult if you can accept that Lois learned Clark's secret first accepting up Batman with vehicle mounted weaponry isn't really a cinematic issue and it's no more than adaptation then wonder woman and World War I or having an Aquaman that isn't blonde now second related to that consider the potential somatic importance and impact doomsday could represent to the Trinity even from the scant little information we have now if doomsday comes from the raw material of his odd and has a heat vision like attack he represents a second redemptive chance for Superman and Batman to conquer a past trauma together for example Superman might contain the conflict in a way that he couldn't the first time and Batman doesn't have to be a powerless bystander but he can participate in the fight Superman may revisit the question of lethal force and doomsday could breed compassion and Batman once he's been put in Superman's shoes against a foe utterly out matches him Batman will have more empathy for Superman's debut and he'll have the humility to realize that he needs Superman and wonder woman to take on future threats like these as the brainchild in the product of humanities hubris a goes further to resolve Batman's fears and angst directed at Superman whose done nothing wrong but merely posing asked the potential doomsday establishes that that potential exists in humanity just as badly in the monster serves to provide a Trinity level threat to bring them together and certainly more themes could be revealed as the story unfolds third and finally I'm fairly confident doomsday will evolve in appearance as the battle continues and if he doesn't isn't the end of the world but Snyder does have a history of evolving and escalating action now some contend if there is a final more familiar form why not show it they've already spoiled this much why not that and I think the short answer is that this is to acclimate us to his first appearance so that it's less confronting in the film think of Caillou rends cross guard light saber but more on that a little 8 o'clock we seen seven seconds of this character so let's just relax until we know more that said let's analyze what we did see where hit with a bunch of the septa that it's the doomsday appears to be two or more stories tall he's going to tower over all of our heroes just falling he has the size and the wait to cause the pavement dropped into the air and send for vehicles flying just for the sake of simplicity him the call his energy attack heat vision although it corrupts from his mouth as well as his eyes and that power seems reasonably derived from kryptonian physiology and if that connection exists he may be similarly vulnerable to things like kryptonite as well well at least at first if this is a doomsday that overcomes his weaknesses with impossible speed I'm not necessarily on board with the logical rigor of a plot device power like that that is evolving to overcome any weakness which honestly is to semantic a power to be biologically driven but I suggest that they'll have a more deft and internally consistent portrayal of that power for example in the past we seen that environmental adaptation beyond what human can do is a kryptonian trait so at least there's a baseline premise for it in Man of Steel the model for doomsday is gorgeous and it's meticulously detailed in a way that doesn't completely show up on YouTube if you're a diehard fan I recommend downloading the high bit rate version and interestingly doomsday has calcified protrusions along that same place that Jor-El scarred is odd will doomsday's go look better in motion in context on the big screen after the film has introduced you to a world of weird were a monster like doomsday seems possible that said right now it sticks out is distinctly CGI even if it's well executed CGI there are ways to introduce CGI entities that are less confronting but that's not the goal of this trailer but will get into that I have absolutely no qualms about the close-up animation the breathing animalistic rollers he's very much a monster capable of leveling skyscrapers with his heat vision alone his roar his history his presume status as a mutated and reanimated corpse tends to suggest a lack of intelligence and perhaps that's the give the Trinity a pure and unambiguous monster to fight a Dragon to slay something to give them a clear-cut victory after all the shades of gray in Man of Steel in the fight between Batman and Superman and as part of the reason why the doomsday template offers something valuable to the creators he could be as nuanced and is relevant as they need him to be an rather than making him this needlessly complex character that they have to develop at the 11th hour can exist as a plot device similar to how he was first introduced to our collective consciousness he can be something to solidify the dawn nothing Batman in that cockpit reminds me that there's another theme throughout this trailer and that's to show Batman is vulnerable he's competent and a bad ass sure but not invincible or an untouchable God in this trailer alone we see Batman captured unmasked on his back pushed down and swearing it doomsday the fact is without help Batman dies in that cockpit the trailer is carefully setting expectations throughout anyways's odds heat vision can be stopped by wonder woman's shield and apparently Superman's skin and suit the effect is subtle but it looks like part of him or glowing with heat before cooling off similar to the more pronounced effect with wonder woman shield now speaking of wonder woman doomsday's attack heralds her entrance there's not much to say since this is always got to go on for now but to me she looks incredible composed steely eyed she exudes a warrior strength and she seems equipped to tackle a firebreathing Dragon alongside a dark Knight in a Man of Steel I like that final Trinity shot but something seems slightly compositionally offer it for me individually they all look awesome but standing together like that is a little odd I like it though get me wrong is not rushing to make this my desktop wallpaper granted this is their first meeting and they are a coherent fighting team they are literally just any together and not the Trinity yet but will see how it plays in the context of the felt so speaking of this as their first meeting we got a address those lines she would you I thought she was with you I know some are going to hate this exchange but I loved it maybe not as a joke which are kind of awkwardly smatter throughout the trailer but because of what it represents the fact that neither of them recognize wonder woman means that this is their first encounter with her and the fact that they've got is easy kind of banter between them means that they've worked to things out between themselves before and without her intervention they've lifted the weight of the world off their shoulders the granted I think her playing peacemaker would've been interesting but not needing a third-party speaks volumes to their character and their ultimate friendship there's nothing wrong with needing a third-party to resolve differences but even better if they got there on the road the banter reflects hope for change cooperation friendship and it's a peek into their future adventures as the world's finest if I know a photograph figure guy is the only eyewitness this writing your funeral you have the fact that neither of them recognize wonder woman also means there still stuff in this world to surprise even the world-weary Batman given the photo of Bruce and Diana dancing at Batman's older age many were quick to assume prior ties to wonder woman before Donna justice however this means that they all start on equal ground that they are all new to one another and that this can be a genuine dawn rather than just being somebody who is left out being let in on the secret that equal playing field democratize is the justice league rather than making it about seniority okay let's tackle some of the problems with this trailer and some possible apologetics for why make some strategic sense briefly people are going to be upset at how much they think or feel was being shown believing that they can outline the entire film and being especially bothered by the banter wonder woman and the visual reveal of doomsday the editing could be criticize the music and dinged is repetitive and generic the uneven tone of humor Crimmins seriousness than banter and finally some might take issue with say Lex's performance I'm sure that this trailer is can a be criticized as being directed at unsophisticated viewers and in my opinion that's kind of right and why this trailer is awkward to watch but good for the film to me most of this trailer is like a giant flu shot meant to inoculate the general audience against the same kinds of issues that arose with Man of Steel roughly speaking I think this trailer does four things that the beautiful Man of Steel trailers might not have done one reset expectations to spoonfeed exposition three allow the audience to focus on the film rather than plot or shock and for appreciate the film for what it is rather than what they felt was advertised the Man of Steel trailers were merely solid on avoiding spoilers but consequently many viewers made times a basic viewing comprehension errors mean how many people missed how dominant's odd was in that final fight and came away thinking that Zide was an outmatched underdog that Superman could freely manipulate how many people missed Jor-El's explanation for why he didn't join Cal Al how many people missed's odds deeply enshrined inflexibility and then constantly propose alternative courses of action for this inflexible Zide how many people thought the Clark had superspeed before he learned to fly and so on and so forth Man of Steel's plot isn't that complex but it is layered with a few twists and turns a lot of show don't tell and a few shocking moments full comprehension usually comes out in multiple viewings but there's a significant portion of the audience that would've done better if they didn't have to worry about plot exposition shock or expectations is a silly example consider that cross guard light saber from the force awakens I think was a brilliant move to show that early because all the shock criticism confusion in questions are all talked out and ultimately acclimated and completely accepted so now when you see it for the first time in context not simile thrown out of the movie with a head buzzing with issues and you can simply enjoy the flow of the film and yeah the comes at the cost of a mild spoiler and surprised true but you get to enjoy the film better than if you're still debating the logistics of across card light saber in your head to scenes later Man of Steel actually did this approach with Jonathan's may be lied and while it's still a problem for some the vast majority of people came to terms with it before watching the film and had no issues while watching the film now contrast that against saves odds death with the film actually provides ample time to process and move on under subsequent viewings that first time shock and leave some unable to appreciate what those subsequent scenes are doing because their mind is still reeling as of these trailers help inoculate us to give us time to accept ahead of time things that might be potentially confrontational material for example we know that Lex Luther is going to have hair for the bulk of the film and that he has an exuberant and over the top side we worry learned that Batman can own and operate a number of guns we've learned the Batman may potentially kill and at least brutalize and Brant we've heard Martha say that Clark goes the world nothing we seen that this is a world with enough weird we've got flying insects soldiers and Amazonian warrior and doomsday we seen doomsday's initial form and appearance were prepared for the unexpected appearance of wonder woman can we get an idea of what kind of humor to expect and on and on that initial seen in the trailer is fantastic and there's so much to chew on we spent like 10 minutes just on it in this podcast alone however if it wasn't in the trailer people would appreciate everything that was going on in that scene and in likely gloss over it when watching the film and if more casual viewers didn't get a taste of this flamboyant Lex first or didn't see doomsday debut those confronting things would be turning over in their heads instead of appreciating the rest of the scene it would be too busy mentally criticizing doomsday's initial appearance to appreciate his fast and furious onscreen evolution as wonder woman tries to have to and to pieces and bony protrusions grow into protective armor to stop her sword there is value to being shocked and surprised by doomsday the character is so laden with pre-existing expectations it's a smart marketing moved to preempt those expectations for smoother in theater experience this trailer primes those casual viewers to get over the shock to air their grievances let those issues fade in the ensuing months than fully appreciate the film for what it actually is rather than some one-sided debate of what it's not inside the mind back casual viewer know this sounds utterly crazy but it's vital to reset expectations to an attainable level for film where some are anticipating a religious experience purely somatic and total trailers which heavily avoid spoilers certainly keep the hope of that kind of possibility alive but they also result in severe backlash when the film fails to conform to an ideal that existed only as atmosphere some fans have a ready built elaborate mental cathedrals involving everything from Christian Bale to oh Max to Jason Todd and beyond and they set themselves up to be disappointed if the film didn't conform to their wild imaginations so while it's true that a spoiler heavy trailer will preemptively disappoint those kinds of fans have a third of the year to recover get over it and bring their expectations in line with what the film is actually about an actually is and while you and I may say that we hate spoilers apparently the science says that we don't up a link in the show notes and if I had time to put some clips after the signoff anyways the trailer may seem like the product of focus groups but there is method in that madness from Romans interview we knew that this trailer was in the works for a while and I have to believe that it's effect was equally calculated even if it's presentation was not as artful okay enough of that let's talk about that nightmare scene and sneak peak which was unquestionably artful to me so we talked about this way back in episode 27 I feel like most of my predictions are coming true as we discussed then I believe these scenes come from a future dystopia where Superman rules and Batman runs the rebellion I think the scenes roughly come together like this Batman's men are riding across the land to let him know Superman's forces are coming Batman emerges from his bunker and Superman's forces are already there gunning down Batman's men and with orders to take Batman alive to make matters worse for Batman flying rifle wielding insects soldiers are snatching up his meant there traveling in the same direction as the soldiers bearing the crests of the house of L so I believe them to be aligned incidentally if you look at the background there's these fate jagged shapes in the sky of those fallen skyscrapers are crashed spaceships who knows Batman is swarmed and eventually overwhelmed he's knocked out and captured and when he awakens we get a sneak peek footage there's only 30 seconds of substance but it's still pretty interesting Batman awakens and he take stock of the situation that means that despite the suggestion of some this probably wasn't a part of his plan in less he could predict that he be safe while unconscious although Batman isn't in control he still composed and he is in panic but before he can actually do anything we hear distant sonic boom and Superman crashes down into the bunker I don't think that's an intentional display of power which is the fact that he don't have to care about landing gently in an enemy bunker there's some visual effects to add dust wind to play with the focus I think I preferred the cleaner version but it's not a big deal Superman's men about and in this context the Superman tolerates it's not expects or demands that kind of respect to be consider that even soldiers were willing to die on his behalf have to showed this level of deference how much more might a rebel leader be considered as disrespectful to the King of the world that means eyes go slightly wanted his mouth is just a little agape and there's a trace of beer backed by the score which would be fitting in a heartfelt Superman's frown is actually physically subtle but the look is so dissonant that it takes on exaggerated significance in the mind you imagine him with a completely twisted up sneering face when everything is just slight a slightly furrowed brow slightly baggy eyes the corners of his mouth slightly turned down but altogether it feels set like this is how his face has had the displeasure of being for years and for second we see through the eyes of both men from Superman's perspective Batman helpless and afraid and from Batman's perspective the tyrant reaching for his head Batman is unmasked and completely vulnerable he's breathing heavily and trembling his beer laced with anger now that Superman has torn away his face Superman examines that mask as if to say that said this is what separates you from everyone else in which is caused me all this trouble this thing that so easily removed cut to black the most likely Batman is executed so let's talk about how this sequence this into the film and why it's creatively justified what would make a dream sequence could storytelling technique when it's typically something we deride as without import or impact well to me this has to be a vision or dream sequence because there's no place for this to fit in the normal continuity of the film you'd need the time and the space for Superman to have marshaled forces that bear his insignia who bowing deference to him and where he's comfortable receiving that kind of Cal tower you have to have flying alien support troops and Batman would have to have his own forces slaughtered in a bunker to be captured in and then to go from there to a story where they make nice cooperate in the span their forces even if you try to use Lex Luther as lubricant to explain how those forces arise it doesn't explain Superman's comfort with others bound to him's hostility towards Batman Batman agreeing to bury the hatchet after Superman's men gun people down there's just no way to get all the way there and all the way back with the rest of the film story but in the outline that I give it can all be summed up with basically four words that practically explain everything Superman tyrant Batman rebel that's all you need that concise description you can fill in the blanks within a dream space all on your own I like the earlier decision is a link to the Soviet without life some form or the population was what you are you are the freedom fighter is remains available to my desire for order perfection was not only by their dreams of violence chaos I offer the utopia the fourth the right live in hell even those crazy insect would soldiers could be any number of things from the product of continuing kryptonian science remember the dropship's having insectlike appearance and that scene could carry through their technology and other ways to an alliance with another alien race after all Man of Steel is a first context story so who's to say additional context don't follow to something as specific as a new cinematic adaptation of the power demons if allied with Darkside is is is is is from Clark's and have a landline telephone as her I die is powerful enough to do is wouldn't find her above really Lois my opinion within a dream or vision that level of exposition isn't really explicitly necessary although pending on the degree of authenticity in the predictive power there would need to be a reasonable correlation with the source of the sequence so for example unless Batman is somehow aware of power demons he probably shouldn't be dreaming of them although he might have nightmares about kryptonian genetic experiments run amok or humans becoming second-class citizens on earth if Superman takes over and allies with alien races who come to inhabit earth as he did if however the vision is not the sum total of his fears but instead something with prosthetic quality such as something magically driven coming from an Oracle than everything has to be plausible within the world and not simply the product of an emotional response anyways with the tyrant rebel dynamic you immediately understand the disdain for one another and granted you might have to explain how they got there but really all it takes is for words she was my wife and I like Superman I now had my rent I had to take control there was no other way for too long I fooled myself into thinking I was doing a simple cleanup job if I get enough good people would follow my example I didn't realize it was a war and suddenly you were casualty of war and I knew I had to stop it by whatever means possible that out where you fit sequence like this will rather than explain all the problems with the alternatives let me just peachy some reasons why it makes narrative sense towards the beginning of the film not Messerli the beginning of the film but towards the beginning so basically the entire framework of this film is Batman against Superman and then making up however much like we talked about with the marketing trying to inoculate general audience into not taking some basic ideas granted a dream sequence like this can help initialize the audience expectations or calibrate them without fouling up reality take for example Batman's limitations the flashback to the BZ eat shows us how vulnerable Bruce is as himself yet without calibration or initialization it's hard to know how vulnerable Bruce is when he becomes Batman in some cases of tradition is basically a normal man wearing a bat suit but in other cases when he dons that Cal suddenly becomes an unstoppable ninja God without knowing Batman's limits there's no stakes in the fight was Superman but the problem with pushing Batman to his limits in the real story world is that he has to survive it and then come back from it and we don't have time for medieval back rehabilitation in the prison pet in Donna justice but within a dream sequence Batman can show how bad ass he is by taking down as many troops as he can but eventually we see his limits we see that he's mortal can be taken down and can be captured without Superman even having to lift a finger showing how vulnerable Batman can be provide stakes for the future fight and at the same time the dream sequence manifests what Batman fears without actually forcing Superman down that road instead of being this abstract paranoia that Batman has while the rest the world except Superman a predictive vision give some credence to his fears and lays them out in a tangible visible example for the audience to grasp and empathize with even if the audience doesn't agree they can understand why Batman feels the way he does toward Superman maybe that vision also shows that Superman can dismantle Batman without actually having to dismantle and within the real world of the story and that helps give weight to lines like Superman saying if I wanted to you be dead already without the dream sequence is just sort of an abstract idea that some might have difficulty imagining of the audience's view of Superman is to benevolent but the dream sequence shows us that it's true in a gives gravity to that line in that choice that Superman's making the sequence keeps the audience from taking Superman's goodness for granted and it reminds us that he's still a person with free will and choices doesn't just get to effortlessly default to being perfectly good and moral at all times a set of bad circumstances and choices and there but for the grace of God go I it helps the audience appreciate that Superman could be a tyrant he could just overthrow those people that would question him or subject him to inquests who scrutinize him in protest his very existence and to not take for granted those daily choices which build him into a character who doesn't and the dream sequence inoculates the audience and prepares them for a world of the weird three times over first by presenting the power demons or their ilk which opens the audience's eyes to the possibility that this movie can go that second the trip be nature of the dream itself presents a world where either oracles are providing prophecies or where vigilantes dream of vivid apocalyptic futures and third and finally that speculative nature of the dream the what if or else worlds nature opens the audience's mind towards thinking things through to their logical conclusions rather than just assuming external rules onto the world and taking them for granted for example in a world where Batman and Superman are literally at war anything can happen given the right circumstances instead of assuming that they could never be enemies and must be allies and friends simply by default and tradition see can see that the dream sequence if it's placed towards the beginning of the film can do all a lot of work to get the audience into the right headspace to enjoy the film and the sequence does one more thing elegantly and that's provide motivation if the dream is Batman's provides motivation to explain his fear his distrust of Superman the personally I'm not sure it's enough or that sympathetic to base your hatred of another person based on your nightmares my personal preference is that it's a prophecy or vision for wonder woman to elegantly explain her involvement at this time however the logistics of explaining to the audience why there's this magical prophecy is a little more clunky the Bruce awakening in a cold sweat right that said those logistics feed into the world of weird that we want Donna justice to explore if it is wonder woman's motivation the stakes in the outcome of the vision have to go of just a little bit further beyond Batman's death and that could set the stage for a much larger universe wide story either approach has its advantages some keeping an open mind so one who has silly thing to just wrap up this podcast with only scant seconds of footage everything in the sneak peek fell under really heavy scrutiny of one thing that arose a few times was the issue of Batman's black eye makeup disappearing the instant that he's unmasked in the sensible thing to do is simply hand waived the issue as a relevant to larger story and tone they made a creative choice which to me was the smarter and less distracting what I suspect the vast majority of the odd against is happy to go along with ignore or not even notice the disappearing eye makeup you got a make certain allowances for filmmaking and not everything needs to be explained that said if you absolutely have to provide apologetics it certainly not too difficult as long as were in the context of that sequence which is very unlikely to be completely literal like the sepia coloring of the entire scene whether it's a vision or dream those kinds of shortcuts are comment even within Man of Steel in the dream machine sequence they had those irrational leaps and reality which is sensible because that's how we dream but if somehow were backed into a corner within the film and the same thing happens outside of a dream is all hope lost health first I'd advise you not to hang your hopes on something so trivial but second there is still a way out and basically he just needs some form of high-tech mutable makeup or attack to the Ferromagnetic make up the turns black in the presence of his mask or an advanced tattoo which does the same it would take a sizable amount of R&D to take us from where we are today with LED tattoos to using something like biomimicry to copy the talents of an octopus squid or chameleon but it's not impossible just as the modulator in his mask interacts with his voice there might be a component that interacts with his makeup for his tattoos don't take this answer particularly seriously but if that's what's holding you up there's your answer which allows for the possibility or consistent with the real world if you're going to take any issues with masks first challenge Robin domino mask before worrying about makeup okay I think I've rambled on long enough Man of Steel answers insight commentary is a proud member of the Superman podcast network here some other podcast I suggest you check out if you want to extend your enjoyment of the Superman mythos got it together from the far reaches of beings that are assembled and that's what got dedicated to the bust greatest superhero is safe a heavy Superman like featuring Superman: a the DC comics presents crisis to crisis Superman podcast is Superman this you will podcast is Superman forever ring Superman will about the way you you you you you are you will podcast KL from Superman homepage.com is John Wilson really help you are leaving my present bride your retailer Michael they start to Sam result is the original Mario is given by an highlighted I gave Younis and how has Gotti they because that what.com thanks so much soliciting I just love discussing the stuff been sticking with me hopefully you do to I'm genuinely grateful for each and every listener and hope you'll join us Man of Steel answers.com that way got a question you want answered or insight you want to share commentary to make composing the comments for all your like-minded apologist to see or you can email me at mosaic@ManofSteelofSteelanswers.com like what you heard please review the show on iTunes or stitcher and subscribed this is Dr. awkward your DC cinematic universe apologist signing off CNX time that answers spoilers might be the bane of Twitter but it appears that it will be has his shocking surprise ending spoilers may not be such a bad thing after all the time and preoccupation for a University to study them psychology professor Nicholas question found at the University of California San Diego torment what will upon people's enjoyment story so it shows various quick thing the short stories have people come in and in one condition we spoil them beforehand without using the word spoiler appropriately the split waste any a surprise twist patient a learned spoilers are in fact enhancers when people knew what was going and reading the story was more enjoyable sense to kind magazine television critic James but a lot of it it's an much more terrifying to know that something horrible is not have to is not the other side of if you got serious effect to what has movies because it's really easily again the shower will finally again spoilers narrow decidedly can clear the way we want need into change people weight watches and their DDR is or who moved that this agreement of people talk about it shows online kind of pleasure in a spoiler distracting Kevin Smith movie review show and who is called spoilers I'm not one of those cats it's like I need to be pressures going to be honest with you I want to know more on voracious I am the Internet it is much as I might feed me's net fit a little intense knowledge can be useful when Kevin Smith is filed he has a simple solution just chaos Twitter and looking NTI needed a enjoying out buying Nicholas crushes out in a professor of social psychology DC San Diego and he has just published a study entitled story spoilers don't spoil stories and gauntlet Jonathan Levitt and Jamie of it had are interested in all sustained action bigger questions I had about why it is that the summer armor completely made-up stories you think of your goal is to learn about the world your never reflection they and you learn things that people just made the world are made up the other worlds tradition is the one is very good at is the status as you don't know how it's going to end Mercury story about World War II to know where you said his this is a critical part of action and you tell a terrestrial like taking away this is spoiling it is an empirical question genuine facts will things by employing and I contributed him into document the results are taking a very interesting what you found in the result for identity Sen. all three cases all three kinds of strictly multiple stories in each category needs spoilers actually make people enjoy the story more and he actually prefer having red star is laying of the administrative mystery story is literary stories is is is is is is is just an earlier enhancers even answering that you are able to then pay attention to other aspects of that year able to appreciate the literary qualities of the story or more subtle details that aren't on abducting what's going to happen next and there is is is is is is you read the stories plot isn't really the Internet is he just wanted to know who did you to apply for it was at any stage is hard-working is clearly discovering who did it as a trivial detail what you want to stick: the history of the other Carter and filmmaker who had just contempts you is like a coat hanger just a garments that is necessary always or is on the floor but you don't say a covert Ursula mise en scène glad to see a coat hanger is just an excuse for doing aren't you are you don't need lots when you look at it routine saying where you are a great piece of music you just want to see the artistry of the liver was structured what you did accent and the American which made a result seem almost obvious is if you think about how people actually enjoy great books and movies and just solution are the arms that is obviously spoil her as many does he have let you don't tell me and he's got entire ongoing Julia already I got here Lake obviously know the answer to that in a dozen any way diminish your pleasure on to a Sears place was in the title tells you whether or stalled for example all's well that ends well don't go thinking I don't know if his target is purely antagonistic if I was execution recently about DI did watching movies over and over again how I have some movies that I love that I've seen you know probably over 20 times because there just like comfort food DNA I know got good can happen I like running their it over and over again Lemmie having been spoiled by the knowing exactly what will happen and running it over and over again but raising money watch a movie at styles and he spends movies in these ironic twist movies again a who is the second time you watch the usual suspects you have a richer experience you can see the unfolding narrative Kaiser says I can understand what the filmmakers doing work with greater knowledge that the process of people don't go.net move on that they can now go back is a great whatever annoying and he what is sex with pleasure run the end of the greater pleasure it is a suspension of disbelief that's all section entails anyway the GR's into Romeo and Juliet is made up there is no Romeo whose dad and indelibly doesn't exist but there is that he said that he enter the narrative you can feel the anguish even knowing that it's inevitable that the heart of poison in the dagger and so is the original styles is completely material that is just as spoiled as they don't even exist. To responses to this time you want to sponsor a 10% of the population is plenty with us all the time when I read books is the last page I know some people who while going to movies that first discovering I said to be the first four hours on a Mother Teresa is now all of their friends to mock the incitement out right here on the other 90% of people simply don't believe I collateral it will very longer than I know that spoilers room as a response to certain ones intuitions, empirical data in the deeper issue that I was especially so is what is almost never position of knowing whether not spoilers spoil things in one's own wife that's when I see a movie I crater seeing here is not going to I don't know what my strengths what had been the other way right as I go see Hamlet and I love that I knew the end I don't think the story generally is what was a great play you and and something else arrow keys they venturing out again and I don't see how I was pretty well startled but I really have no idea is this can't be done intuitively we simply don't have the data of answers