Man of Steel answers insight commentary episode four powers part two I will ask the obvious question start asking questions with answers welcome to Man of Steel answers insight commentary on your Man of Steel apologist Dr. awkward I cover a mosaic of topics for fans who love discussing the Man of Steel and the DC cinematic universe together will endeavor to answer the questions criticisms and controversies raised by Man of Steel as we eagerly anticipate the DC cinematic universe in this episode we cover kryptonian powers in Man of Steel and how they worked in the film this is the second in a three-part series in today's episode will discuss heat vision superstrength and more last episode we talked about the things that set callow apart like being the first natural born kryptonian or having the codecs bonded to him we also covered super hearing and x-ray vision so if you haven't already listen to those episodes go back and check the map as all three parts of this series were recorded together and reference each other this podcast dives deep into Man of Steel to answer the critics and the confused the show is not meant to convert anybody but the celebrate a film that leaves a lot of wonderful room for interpretation and investigation reasonable minds will differ but this is a show for the fans who love to Man of Steel and who love to chew their food will start with die genic analysis for what happened in the film then analyze the creative decisions that took place outside the film for now were doing general topic episodes like this one this is not to be your typical run down of superpowers it using the sciences Superman or things like that were to have a little bit of that this is going to be a lot of just crazy fan theory the approach we take on these things is how can we rationalize the powers to come to an understanding of the mechanics behind them not in order to come to a physical reality of how they may occur that ship has sailed but rather to see what guided the creation of the film and how these may predict or project the use of Superman's powers into the future as part of the joy that having this podcast is trying to dissect things pull it apart challenge it with a bunch of different theories and see if we can't find out where the moving pieces are where the underlying assumptions are and maybe come up with a coherent or cohesive theory on how everything works no promises is after all the end of the day it is a flying man with physics defying abilities but it's fun to try and if you think it's want to stick around and listen to the podcast so the third in our triumvirate of powers that we see from the elementary school scene is number seven heat vision we all recall that Clark sequesters himself in a utility closet he locks the door behind him and when the teacher tries to fumble with the knob he invisibly heats the knob such that she withdraws her hand because it's become hot that makes me happy because that means that he can use his powers potentially in the discrete way with invisible beams that may not necessarily be detectable by those around him and that gives way to some the things that we can see in made it more traditional comics one of my favorite scenes in All-Star is when Clark is discreetly rescuing people from disaster without their knowledge and he vision being a big part of that it's exciting that even within the movie where typically we see beams being fired at every turn there are also exceptions that gives you a little more ability or wiggle room to see other portrayals or techniques used in future films so the next time that we see him use his he vision is to burn a wide being in a tunnel so again that's showing the versatility of the power before he's just remotely heating a doorknob without any deems and the next time he sees Abe to carve this wide beam with his wide shafted McCrae to total that he can walk through now to be fair we don't actually see exactly how he cars the the title it sort of presumed that he uses a wide beam and just walks forward but it's possible that he just kept making concentric circles or spiral with his eyes and that's the way he dug the tunnel rather than just the a wide beam but a wide beam would be something that's kind of exciting it's it's again back to that sort of traditional comic something where Superman has the ability to use his heat vision in a variety of ways and not just as you discrete lasers another to quick meet things that we see from the tunnel scene and that repeat themselves throughout the film is one we see that it causes this Savini effect to appear on his eyes so that may counter or go against the ability to use the powers discreetly Superman might have to at least with more powerful beams try to hide his own face but with weaker beams in a may be only his eyes light up just a little bit turn a little bit red we don't know apparently that's part of the San Diego comic con teaser footage that sort of now iconic idea of and angered Superman with glowing red eyes right and so the effect hears even more enhanced by the sort of the the veiny affect the lid up inflamed veins that spread out from the eyes in the Man of Steel universe the other thing that we see is that after a intense or long or strong blast of heat vision kryptonian's have to sort of shake it off you see Clark sort of shake his head as if he's a little bit dizzy or a little bit disoriented after completing the tunnel you also see him do that when he slags the steel beam in an instant and wins on for some leashes his heat vision so there's a brief sort of for lack of a better term refractory period when they unleash this strong energy from their eyes and that also gives us a sort of constraint on how the power might work in the future so it's not just something that they can effortlessly put forth just continually pour on and just keep using and abusing instead it just orients them to do that continuously and and therefore it gives time for now fight choreography gives time for reaction or counteraction and it's just a nice little window where you stay true to Superman being Superman but without just making it so overwhelmingly difficult to write because you've written he written out all the space that would prevent Superman from just unleashing this heat vision perpetually until all his enemies her incinerated something to the effect right so some of the other things that we see we see him use it with surgical precision to cauterize a wound we see that is the only thing that Superman can bring forward that can actually damage kryptonian armor besides a whole torrent of his punches justice slightly damage a helmet his heat vision actually was able to reliably damage the kryptonian armor just a little bit quicker it was able to damage the kryptonian scout ship of the we don't really have any sort of durability findings are feats for the scout ship but they you have it it is able to damage that is on's he vision was able to bring about the collapse of an entire building so that suggests that the beam while it damage the room that they were in just Going for and on and on and on throughout the whole building till all the structural supports and everything were work were quite damaged so that although we don't see it explicitly suggests that the range of he vision is quite significant at least enough to make an entire building collapse as mentioned before it's able to slag an entire steel beam in an instant it it seems like a small thing compared everything else were talking about but that amount of energy dumped in a single instant is quite significant fortune and left my notes at home on on the math on this but the IL try to either post in the show notes of bring it up in a future blog post in the final thing is it doesn't necessarily as far as we can tell doesn't necessarily at least for an untrained kryptonian follow the pupils and this is a common protest with the with with the finale and Zide using that sustained beam to put the family into a assuming deathtrap a lot of critics will say why didn't he just turned his eyes widen he widened the beam widen he do this or do that and it may be just a simple as I didn't know how it may be more complex and saying no kryptonian can do that we don't know explicitly that Superman can widen the beam we don't know explicitly that Superman can make the beam follow his pupils rather than just the straight view of his eyes but those also may have been things that came with training in Superman's been on earth for 33 years and has dealt with these powers for at least 24 years so it's nothing compared to the amount of experience that Zide has with these specific powers now the mechanics of the he vision are little more complex to describe it's probably not radiant heat the magnitude and that the degree of heat that's coming off there's just no way that you can find that is sort of a narrow and specific beam were talking about sort of that energy dumped that comes from the slagging of the Irene beam just being around that or near that would your the radiant heat heat is is is radiant ready comes off the source it would come off the beam and they would be so much surrounding collateral sort of damage from something like that instead his beams tend to be some more sort of discrete laserlike kind of application so that the heat stays within the beam itself what is more tricky is trying to figure out how he's able to come find it either to a beam or if he is able to spread it why the spread is and always like a cone as opposed to do sort of a wide narrow flat be we don't know how is able to do either of those things but those things only appear the traditional comic something is those things have not appeared in the movie universe so far and based on the dealing or the the way that they've dealt with the power so far anticipate that they'll maintain those uses so sort of a remote heating ability like we saw with the young Clark sort of a beam a discrete beam ability as we see throughout most the movie and then may be will get that wide beam affect that we saw with tall again wears an entire sphere of he vision but I don't think will necessarily get anymore how I don't think we'll get sort of that wide beam blast that you may recall from Superman returns where Superman uses his power to melt falling glass shards debris a spread like that I don't know that you can necessarily or easily sort of scientifically explained that and again these powers are whack they're not scientific they are just comic book magic but the more you confine or constrain yourself the sort of realistic grounding or physical principles the more you can communicate your audience at this is something that's plausible and possible and real and that sort of added dimension to he vision is something I appreciate something that they've carried through the entire film now have a little crazy theory and other sort of floating here and I'll let you guys discuss it in the forums and terror to part or whatever you want but my crazy theory here is that the reason heat vision is specifically able to injure kryptonian's is because it is in some aspect or some part of it something like red solar radiation it isn't the radiant heat that is damaging them like I said before if you're dumping that much heat into an object there would just be all this spillover and spell off that would just be of such incredible magnitude could these are guys that at least we we don't know it in this movie but let maybe traditionally Superman's able to sort of bathed in the sun he's able to survive lightning bolts and sit in a volcano or something like that right so the heat from the he vision isn't enough to cause the damage but maybe maybe it's because it's able to sort of push aside kryptonian vulnerability and this is particularly relevant in sort of that classic example of the classic question of the marketing campaign that accompanied the launch a Man of Steel which was the Gillette campaign for how does the Man of Steel shade how to Superman shave and we had also to theories posited by also to geeks nerds and pop-culture figures but obviously comic book fans Superman traditionalists like ourselves know the classic way that Superman shapes and that's by reflecting reflecting his he vision off of some device or machine or object able to reflect is he vision and again that's another crazy characteristic of he vision to begin with because it it isn't blazers right and it's actually supposed to be heat heat doesn't odd bounce discreetly off of objects right so that it does bounce it does you can radiate heat and you can reflect heat but to reflect it with precision or you know laserlike precision I guess of the most accurate phrase belie something that isn't heat so as not actually heat vision and that gays than is more something like laser vision I'm sorry I'm getting off track on semantics the just is he bounces the he vision back towards his chin and singes off the hairs now I've I understand this tradition and I'm okay with it to the extent that is tradition I not comfortable with it because of a couple those physical reasons I just explained he doesn't quite bounds send which always begin to get angle that he wanted get but sort of just a ancillary problem that either always had with it is that his bathroom should stink of burning hair and the particulate matter coming off a that burning hair would be potentially super particulate right so you'd be throwing these dangerous a best dislike particles into the air for Lois to breathing and so perhaps I'm being a little hyper rational there a little over realistic so that's that's kind of absurd a split now worry about that my point is that the amount he that it would take to actually damage Superman damage Superman to the extent that he could lose hair or flash or in a cellular material at least traditionally the comic would be so freaking high that he be rating outpouring off heat to the point that he would be sending his apartment on fire you know and and and damaging the whole facility Emmy for example he's able to run through the sun to clean escape but not singes hair right he doesn't he flies in the sun and he doesn't come off he doesn't come out bald as a child his eyebrows burned off his head scout so that means that his hair in the traditional comics can sustain those kinds of extraordinary heat and so that would mean that his the heat that bouncing off his eyes off of his mirror is more powerful than the sun right Hinze that's why I'm saying this ridiculous amount he is probably not the way that is not the thing that's overcoming his powers in order to damages hair rather we know that kryptonian's are sensitive to or susceptible to different kinds of radiation at least traditionally they are again Man of Steel kryptonite has been introduced yet but at a minimum we know that the radiation of the yellow sun and I know that's also junk science to but that's one that I'm unwilling to cling to them and then and except but that's another so we'll talk about that in the future but the yellow solar radiation affects them in a way that he gives them strength right we know that the radiation coming off of a radioactive rock a green rock from their planet causes there powers to go away and even lethal effects to them and then we know that the red solar radiation sap some of the powers and makes them essentially mere mortals so if his heat vision is a metabolized form of yellow sun radiation and perhaps closer to the spectrum of something like red Sun radiation but not Messerli red sun radiation itself because of it was that far then and he be shooting beams into his own head and in killing himself but rather something along that spectrum so they just it just nudges back and dials back is invulnerability a little bit then in dialing back is invulnerability now you have hair follicles which are more susceptible to the heat of the heat vision and some leaving incinerate so that's my crazy theory I'm sorry spends most ranting and raving about it feel free to tear apart in the comments or talk about on the forms may be we can explore a little bit more about Superman's heat vision in and get down to the nitty-gritty and figure out how it can a work in the future films let's move onto the next power and I think next one is true marquee power it's it's the the core essence of Superman even from action one is the power that he has that everybody wants it's superstrength number eight so superstrength is the next power that we see the chronology of Clark we see Clark rescue the school bus and obviously that's behind the physical abilities in a normal human being this is the marquee power of Superman superstrength is probably second only to flight as the marquee ability of the ability that we most identify with Superman that may be invulnerability somewhere around there well maybe that's a separate discussion we can rank the powers of Superman see which ones we most identify but for my money it's somewhere between flight and strengthen I tend towards strength I'm particularly excited by how strength was handled in the film and the reason for that is I feel like they really took a careful physical approach to superstrength they really took a lot of effort to portray in a fashion that is grounded and realistic one of the biggest sort of gaffes I would say or perhaps even call it fro comes with superstrength is individuals lifting objects that don't have the structural integrity to support lifting from a single individual point as is exhibited in traditional superstrength feats so for example if you were to try to lift a sinking boat the size of a cargo carrier on a single little point the size of a human that invulnerable superstrong human would just punch through the ship like a needle through tinfoil because the ship was built to be supported to be cradled from all directions with equal pressure by the force of buoyancy of water it was not developed in order to take the stress or strain of a single point bearing all the weight the carrier ship so that's the reality but nonetheless the clinically we anticipate an expected see superheroes characters with superstrength routinely pick maneuver and push objects but just don't have that level of structural integrity to receive that kind of strength right and the movie is very careful to avoid showing those things which might challenge that perception but still give us the goods so for example we have now Meck throwing the train engine now I challenge you to say that may be there there probably isn't a point on a train engine that could survive the stresses of the throw like that maybe the linkage I don't know I'm not a train expert but I imagine that the train is similar to the boat example developed to take strains throughout evenly with normal acceleration not a sudden jerking type throw at a certain structural point so there careful not to show us the train being thrown but we still get to see the train get thrown through the air similarly we get to see the the harassing truck driver his truck gets decimated and humorous fashion but we don't actually see how that comes about because I don't know that there is a elegant or proper or realistic way they can actually communicate that on-screen how that could actually happen that is one of those kind of possible plot holes but I'd love to unravel in our community and you guys would come on the foreman discussed how Superman could pull that off how Clark could've pulled that off that would be a weight off my mother did it did to come up with apologetics for that I'd love I love to get into that but that's another show in the chronology of Clark we have him move the bus we have him do the oil rig rescue and their again you see the physicality and the the correct physics sort of being translated into the film again just like the objects being held up don't necessarily have the structural integrity to maintain superstrength the ground supporting the individual often will not have the structural integrity necessary so for example if a strongman superstrong man were to lift up a tank that tank normally supports his weight across a wide treaded base and so spreading its force across that area is able to stay above the ground but if you concentrate all that force onto just a man's 2 feet then suddenly it's like a pin on top of that tinfoil again and it will punch down and threw them into the ground so in the oil rig scene we see Superman trying to hold up that giant massive piece of metal and quite reasonably the ground against him starts the bow and band and eventually give way but he is able to contribute enough so that the helicopters if they get away and it is a successful rescue but it's wonderful that the filmmakers right up front is one of the first actions he's we see in the film gives us the realistic portrayal of these powers in a way that's really grounded in free from tropes that you be so easy for him to just stand there and hold it up and to have no issues with the ground and audiences with kind of except that because that's what we've come to expect in terms of the superhero tropes but instead the creators said no way cannot put Superman in the real world and still show that he has you know his powers are still relevant and still interesting even if he has to deal with real-world physics outside of his powers and lowered his powers help him personally suspend physics but it doesn't suspend physics for the world around him right and that that's one of reside I just really love the portrayal of superpowers in Man of Steel especially is as far as a code superstrength now everything them talking about is not new territory though right especially with the Superman reboot in 86 with John Byrne and the title Man of Steel there was a move to try to figure out how Superman can maintain these tropes and how he can do these traditional feats that people are expecting from Superman and one of the answers they came with was the innovation of tactile telekinesis the idea was that anything that Superman is touching he's extending a field of support to give that object the structural integrity necessary or to's extend out his strength I guess so that it evenly distributed across the object in old-fashioned that doesn't overcome the objects structural integrity and they called it tactile telekinesis is to distinguish it from the traditional sort of X-Men ability which is just telekinesis the manipulation of things with just your mind and not needing touch because touch is integral to the traditional per trail have Superman manipulates objects right he doesn't just lift things with his mind at least that's not how we think of it has to sort of touch it and move it with his body so tactile telekinesis they open the door for that and I will deftly talk about that later in our catchall segment right at the end that one more thing I just want to talk about is the mechanics of superstrength and how it's not as physically broken as necessarily comes to might automatically okay so how does superstrength work I mean really have is a work were talking about moving objects well beyond what a normal mortal man can get and to thing about this is physics nowadays is high school it's grade school if it's much more intuited I believe in this day and age than 75 years ago when Superman debut so I think right now there's a much more fundamental universal understanding that force equals mass times acceleration and we can see how much strength is exerted by measuring the mass of the object and its acceleration that's Newton's second law of motion but the equation is becomes unbalanced by Superman he's generating that force but he's not making up the difference by being supermassive or accelerating superfast to compensate it typically looks more like Superman is behaving like a supermassive object but we know for fact that he's not supermassive and personally I hate that particular rationalization for how Superman's powers work I'm very glad that when Jor-El enumerates the things that he's benefited from in this environment he doesn't say and you are superdense or the horse supermassive because a lot of times at least in the comic books Superman's unconscious or he's just trying to travel by normal means and those kind of say elevator or a bike or just being knocked out and being carried by normal human beings those things would be possible if he was superheavy or superdense so we know they cannot superdense but we also conceived by his his action that his behaviors that he's not super accelerating right he's typically moving with the same sort of speed or no acceleration at the object that he's trying to push or move or manipulate that being the case where does the extra vector for force arise from where is that difference being made up from all the thing is Superman already has a power that allows him to assign arbitrary force vectors to his own person and that that power is essentially flight thus is superstrength is the product of or in tandem with his flight power and 92 kg mass punching is only going to be up to generate so much force and and so the difference is made up by this sort of flight force strength of vector rather than acceleration it's literally him willing extra force into his pushes into his punches into everything that he does and so he gets more out of it than what is his personal mass or what the actual acceleration of his body is and will talk more about that again in the speed section in the in the flight section is coming up but just sort of intuited that as saying that Superman can behave like a normal human being can punch like a human being he can run like a human being but then he gets more value out of it he gets impossible value out of it and that impossible value is made up's with his that sort of flight ability and just real quick that's kind of intuitive because when he flies we generally anticipate that Superman able to lift as much as he can while he's flying as he is on the ground we generally don't make those two different powers like he's exerting more force when he's pushing against or on the ground many is if he's pushing against something in space or off-line right so we sort of already intuited that Superman is just it will this extra force vector into existence and that's just sort of a slight dissection of how his powers works but is one that is consistent with how Superman has been portrayed in the past and how anticipate who continue to be portrayed through the Batman films that is not to have to make up for his lack of mass with speed at every instant and I know I have physicist dreaming into their iPods right now saying you said speed now you're right I meant acceleration I apologize but you understand what I'm saying he's not to make up for it with acceleration and he's not going become supermassive rather it's just this extra force vector this phantom force vector that comes out of his will and probably comes out of one of the other abilities that will talk about a little bit later okay so then the next implied power to get my to put this in the wrong spot is number nine holding breath and a generally it's it just wrote what I'm trying to say is the ability to have his powers without having to breathe and I think the reason I put it here was I think at the time I was thinking that the duration of the busk rescue the amount of force how heavy an individual would be breathing in order to exert all their force in order to push the bus in order to dive back and rescue. All of those kind of things would require much greater respiration than what was exhibited and that limited respiration again exit rears its head twice in the oil rig seen maybe three times if you consider the amount of exertion that he had to take the swim over to their to climb the rig and all that stuff he was breathing heavily as far as we could tell and then when he rescued the oil rig people he was walking through poisonous air I mean it's essentially superheated air with all these burning noxious toxins in it that is not earth's environment right that is not your every day Sunday stroll through small the that kind of atmosphere is not earth's atmosphere and yet nonetheless he was able to walk through it he was able to exhibit his durability exhibit his strength and open the door for the men trapped inside and they recognize that it wasn't a earth atmosphere because one of the lines that they say right before he opens the open the doors is something to the effect of this the last of the oxygen so they knew that they were to be in respiratory distress in because of the environment being non-earth atmosphere this all important later they admitted you know you might be wondering why keep pounding on this aspect of optical but will try to emphasize is that Clark and Superman do not need earth's atmosphere to have their strength right or to have all of his abilities so being in the oil rig fire is not earth atmosphere okay the other time is when he's floating there in the water where any other individual probably would've drowned because you need do you need to produce and if you stay underwater for an entire dream sequence and just float there you are not breathing so heartily Sinnott breathing oxygen by traditional means so that is another non-earth atmosphere situation where Superman is still exhibiting his powers his durability his is resistance or adaptability now another argument is that he has all of the atmosphere just stored within him during this time and that's something we can address we can address later in the future but I don't think that's necessarily the case because but witnesses get into it so the other the other common example of Superman being able to have his powers without being in earth's atmosphere or earth environment or optimal earth environment is flying into space and he does this three times throughout the film he does it the first time he gains the ability to fly he does it when flying to rescue Lois away from the ship he does is a third time when fightings odd so each of these times he's traveling all the way from ground level to the stratosphere and beyond and into the vacuum of space and each of these times he still able to have his flight he's still able to have his durability his strength his powers that whole spectrum of environments is not earth atmosphere right vacuum certainly isn't and's hyper high-altitude certainly isn't so clearly having sort of this ideal sea level kind of atmosphere is not necessary to the sustenance of Superman's powers at least over a period we don't know if he needs to store it in to his being ahead of time of uses hold his breath during these events I would be inclined to say no he doesn't actually have to hold his breath because of the examples that we sees particularly the ones were he's flying up and down between ground in space but again that is not a factor order requirement to having his powers and then one more sort of collateral example of him not having to breather respire is just the speed at which he travels and again this is sort of again fan theory and and there's reason to discount that we will talk about but when you travel at extraordinary speed you go very quickly there is a difference in air pressure outside your body and the difference of air pressure within your body and so that difference in air pressure rips the air from your lungs right you can't breathe you can't in take any air because the way you intake is at contraction of your diaphragm and it causes a change in air pressure and that's how you suck air into her lungs right but traveling of extraordinary speeds causes such differential that that small little change in volume of air between your diaphragm isn't that overcome that extraordinary force so essentially before working with a purely physical object in and there's no magic involved in no kryptonian shenanigans are or what not a being that requires breath traveling at those extraordinary speeds would have the breath sucked right out of them and nonetheless Superman is able to proceed at those speeds so I know that it's sort of a theory on top of the theory of out of the theory to get there but that's and another little piece of support suggesting that Superman does not need to breathe earth atmosphere to use his powers I know gotten really pedantic about it but it's important and will see why as we roll up on the next power so I think the next power is that durability that invulnerability that Man of Steel mess it's number 10 invincibility or durability so following the chronology of Clark the next power that comes up is durability number 10 and I put it here because in the bullying seen Clark says you know they can't in response to pothead asking whether they heard him so that implies at that point he knows that he has at least enough durability to not be injured by bullies arguably echoed put it up front towards the beginning because Jor-El responded back to Lara you though kill him if he says how but the thing is I don't know the timing meant you even as an infant he would of been bulletproof right and the other thing is you have to talk yet the think about how he would discover this invulnerability yes kids get bumps bruises cuts send and they stuck their toes and all that kind of thing but a lot of people go through their entire life without experience any serious physical trauma you can you can go your entire life without breaking your arm you can go your entire life without getting shot by a bullet so how do you test those limits in a reasonable realistic and safe way is quite probable that Clark did not discover just how durable or invulnerable he was until the age of 14 when you are a little bit more independent you are taking some more risks and you are more susceptible to experiencing injuries and realizing that you aren't being injured so that's the reason I put it there at 14 as opposed to right up front but it is ambiguous we don't ultimately know it's probably the most demonstrated ability in the film we see it again in the oil rig seen obviously he survives the flame and the heat of the flame he survives the collapse of the entire facility he survives alleged drowning he survives the temperature is in the hyperthermia are whatever that would be involved was swimming back to shore to walking around shirtless like I mentioned was superstrength above I was very pleased that how they portrayed in a very realistic manner think a lot of people confuse durability and invincibility with sort of this impossible infinite momentum principle they think if you're durable that means you should be up to stand and take any blow without having to move the necessarily true rather their mass doesn't change just because there durable so for example they can be knocked around by a 10 fire or by getting hit with vehicles or whatever and this is a plausible more reasonable way to approach durability than to make them supermassive or having infinite momentum because allows and interact with society reality in a practical reasonable manner he can get on a bike and ride he can get in an elevator and have it move him the fact that he's able to be transported is a statement about his mass in his momentum not about his durability he can get kicked around and pushed around and moved it doesn't mean that he's not durable or not surviving and I think throughout the film as far as I can tell blood is never drawn skin is never broken bruises never raised so he is quite durable considering how much they went through in that film right is extraordinarily durable and I think that's good Gazeta minimum you need that sort of invulnerability to be Superman the strength his great strength is important but that invulnerability allows you to sort of be in the fray to to be in the story and is interesting like we talk about early with that unbreakable movie that was sort of the one trait that made him a superhero not so much the superstrength not so much any of these other powers that I've been talking about so far were up to number 10 just the durability was enough to push that character into being in a unbreakable being a superhero so it is a definitive power which is why briefly recover Oracle back over a topic that I think we reason the first episode when we're talking about kryptonian armor and how durable was in the same vein we didn't talk about but is the same kind of topic whether Superman suit is invulnerable and super durable or whether it is Superman lending to it on the invulnerability and again we sort of raise that old 1986 John Byrne Man of Steel concept of the several centimeters or millimeters of bioelectric invulnerability force field coming off the Superman in making his costume invulnerable and it's a very sort of practical approach it it it it makes all the magic come out of the kryptonian and their field and their abilities as opposed to having to rely and sort of material science right and I can understand the appeal of that think that is an elegant approach but I also think we came to the conclusion that it ultimately wasn't the bioelectric field kind of theory instead it was the durability and the strength of the materials and the costume and the reason we came to that conclusion was essentially two examples one was that Superman was ultimately able to damage the kryptonian helmets which presumably would of been under that same invulnerable bioelectric shield of field subornation of been damaged and then we sort jokingly also talked about the light of much of the audience that sort of is inclined that way that Clark's shirt and pants were in tatters and and and off his body after the oil rig fire right so if he emanates and invulnerable field to prevent inconvenient nudity that hen it would of been shirtless he ways pants would of been in tatters his clothing would of been perfectly intact because of that field of the other argument I guess you could use a counterargument is that the latter the baggy clothing in the oversize shirt didn't cling closely enough to his body to take the benefit of his bioelectric field right so I guess that is a County theory to the tatters argument but I don't think it works of the armor that is the armor is still quite bulky and jutting coming out of the sort of range of the bioelectric field and nonetheless it still exhibited this extraordinary durability and strength so but there's some wiggle room there to reconcile and give us an alternative theory in the yet to more things about durability one is that we see that physical durability does not necessarily implicate psychic durability so for example both his odd and Fiorella were taken of the battle because of overwhelmed senses fail Laura experience auditory unconsciousness right so the trauma to her mind or her senses was enough to cause her mind to shut down to go into unconsciousness but nonetheless like we talked about with auditory focus before certainly Superman was in a battle with extraordinarily loud sounds explosions intense sensations and nonetheless didn't suffer the same unconsciousness so it is something that is adaptable and can be overcome but it is also a potential and temporary vulnerability as side characterized it the other thing of course is the final feet of their strength overcoming their durability and that's of course Superman being able to kills odd right the next now demonstrates that kryptonian strength is stronger than kryptonian durability at least in so far as God was concerned there is a possibility a theory an argument that Zion and the other kryptonian's were not as strong or as durable as Clark what's that would be based on the fact that the had not absorbed as much solar radiation as Clark did so perhaps they were weaker or scaled to a different strength we don't really know I don't think that's what the movie was trying to convey to us but it is a theory in the alternative if they are as strong as Clark it's if they are as strong as Superman is then that shows a potential upper limit to Superman's invulnerability so in other words if you can exert as much strength on that exact same kind of weakness then in theory you can take Superman out physically right not about practical writers and again you have to realize that that was in that moment in time with a rookie Superman so just as Superman's abilities scaled and were uncovered and revealed throughout the movie for all we know Superman can take his durability and his invulnerability to the next level or a higher level that seems counterintuitive because you'd say no they objectively should be what they are but we'll talk about that a little bit later cause for example we talking about superstrength superstrength is an extra force vector that is just sort of willed into existence right and in order to exert that much torque onto Superman in order to exploit that invulnerability you have to overcome the strength of his neck the will the force that he's exerting into his own neck for to not turn right so as Superman developed in his powers develops and is focused develops in his strength he may be able to essentially Willmore strength into his neck to resist the talking force and in such a way increases durability beyond the threshold that we saw in his battle against God so it's all theoretical but I'm just saying don't be surprised if that technique doesn't necessarily work in the future or the is a plausible explanation for why doesn't work because Superman strength can scale and develop and grow stronger as he goes on as Jor-El says to them keep testing your limits so he put Zonta his limit but that was on limit at the time as a superpowered rookie having only been using those powers to that extent literally only from minutes contrast that to a Superman who is now free to and has cost to develop and continually push his limits and his powers you can imagine that durability going up higher and higher and higher along with the strength and the other powers that are perhaps more will based more conscious based then just as sort of hard fixed permanents that okay thanks so much soliciting I love discussing the stuff been sticking with the whole thing is to gently grateful to everyone listen to join my community is that way questions and is more insights you want to share commentary to make composing her forms for all your like-minded apologist for you can email me@ManofSteelofSteelanswers.com imago hundred and if you like what you 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