Man of Steel answers insight commentary episode nine secret identity and will ask the obvious question start asking questions and answers welcome to Man of Steel answers insight commentary on your Man of Steel apologist Dr. awkward I cover a mosaic of topics for fans who love discussing the Man of Steel and the DC cinematic universe together will endeavor to answer the questions criticisms and controversies raised by Man of Steel and those excited by the anticipated DC cinematic universe today looking at the secret identity what's being protected how it was maintained in Man of Steel and how it can be preserved going forwards this podcast dives deep into Man of Steel to answer the critics and the confused the show is not meant to convert anybody but the celebrate a film that will lead us into the DC cinematic universe reasonable minds will differ but this is a show for fans who love to Man of Steel and who love to chew their food the secret or dual identity is one of the classic elements of the Superman mythos and in myth in general a lot of criticism for Superman in general outside of Man of Steel and in Man of Steel particular stems from the implausibility or maintenance of the secret identity today were to tackle a bunch of those protests will start with small bill then talk about Lois and then the government that will finish was some ways that he could be handled going forwards an opening disclaimer I may seem overly pedantic about enumerating things in this episode but it's important because this is one of the topics were critics the general audiences and even Superman fans have a lot of trouble checking their assumptions and preconceived notions at the door it's important to highlight whether a judgment is coming from the work itself or from the viewers expectation from outside the piece with that out of the way to start with a lightning round overview than a fast attack the questions about this topic and just give short answers and then will show my work with the rest of the podcast to explain the answers here we go question why would the government not proceed identity answer there willing to compromise for the sake of more important interests question did Lois confirm to anyone that she knows Superman's identity answer we don't know Woodburn and Swan Lake comment that she knows and that goes unchallenged onscreen question did Lois his first article compromise Superman's identity answer no question did Lois's second article blowup Superman's identity answer know it when unpublished and it contained no substantive glutes her research however could be an issue question did Lois reveal Superman's secret identity by yelling Clark at his farm answer know it was already necessarily revealed to get the police to drive her to the Kent farm question did Superman exposes identity by giving his ship to the military answer no he delivered it to North, they didn't retrieve it from his farm question did Superman exposes identity by giving his age answer know he only indicated that he had been amongst humanity for 33 years not that he necessarily is 33 years old for all they know he came from the 18,000-year-old scout ship or in another ship like's odd frankly they don't have any more information than they could of already estimated from his appearance anyways only in speaking with Swanwick did he say that he grew up on earth and in Kansas specifically and we don't know whether Swanwick passes on any of Superman's disclosures question did surrendering giveaway his identity answer doubtless it provides plenty of data in the form of his appearance biometrics voiceprint etc. but not in and of itself question did Superman exposes identity by saying that he's from Kansas answer know he made the disclosure only to Swanwick once again a quick reminder this is the lightning round were just running through the answers and questions and we will he be explaining them further through the rest of the podcast start question did the battle a small veil giveaway Superman's identity answer know it began after Lois's escape pod crashed in small bill to the world at large there is no special significance to ascribe to small bill any more than there is to metropolis or the Indian Ocean as targets the battle was merely precipitated by's odds efforts to recapture Lois and Cal Al as far as the world is concerned question did the case giveaway Superman's identity answer no eyewitnesses are unreliable however if it did it only did two individuals motivated to protect and maintain the secret question does Perry no answer they can go either way Boyer suggests that Perry may know question does suicide squad change things answer slightly it makes it all but certain that the government can get the information however it doesn't change the fact that it isn't readily actionable intelligence question what technologies can help keep the identity answer check out our episodes one and two of the podcast as we went over those topics back then question how can the government help keep the identity answer they do that all the time for their own agents operations and witnesses in witness protection question how can the daily planet help keep the identity answer much in the way that Lois is an ally and secret keeper if all of his immediate coworkers are also allies and secret keepers it makes the secret identity something much easier to maintain question how can Lex Luther help keep the identity answer see the dark Knight alternatively consider that Luther wants Superman to think that he is human and question The tropes survive modern reality answer it seems not without a lot of help okay that was hard lightning round and that will go to those right now the first part is with let's talk about what the secret is okay let's outline the information of what's being protected and the first part is that extraterrestrials exist and/or that paranormal abilities exist the second part is that Clark is one of these extraterrestrials and/or that Clark has these abilities and finally that Superman is Clark now when we do an interest balancing test later it's important to think about some of the root assumptions underlying the idea of a secret identity upholding it is not an absolute when there are other interest that from the interests that the secret is intending to preserve so what is the secret meant to protect well first it's meant to protect Clark it's meant to directly protect them from threats against him for example attempting to capture or study him or tacking home it indirectly protects them from threats against his interests and his loved ones for example threatening to take away his private life his sanity is attachment to humans the secret identity helps protect Clark's family both directly and indirectly from the loss of Clark in Man of Steel this secret is meant to protect the world from itself it being not able to handle the idea of hidden ET or extraterrestrials the idea of extraterrestrials challenges many of the world assumptions the information could inflamed humanity's prejudices the pursuit of this information could harm Clark and humanity has a bad track record of dealing with quote unquote others humanity's bad behavior then may lead to it being judged by Clark or his people eventually from the perspective of Jonathan can try to keep this secret we don't know the full scope of Clark's powers and we don't know the intentions of Clark's people don't know that this is a twist in the introduction to the mythos since Superman has traditionally existed in realities that basically gloss over his alien origins the secret is meant to protect third parties who could be endangered by having the information and I'm sure there's other interest that I'm forgetting or not explicitly spelling out the general gist is that if disclosing the secret would run afoul of these interests or there's an interest that tropes all of them and it's okay to disclose that piece of information or the secret so once again it's not an absolute value that must be upheld at all costs right so let's start with small bill who in small bill knows and obviously Clark's parents do notes well if we went by tradition by the time Clark leaves small bill probably Lana Lang and Pete Ross know however within the scope of the film we can't and shouldn't assume that everybody knows let's be careful not to engage in cognitive bias there's a risk of employing either like hindsight bias of the curse of knowledge or personal attribution bias or typical wiped out see it all different kinds of cognitive biases where we come into it with knowledge or expectation and that we assigned that to the thing that were evaluating from a lesson objective perspective for example we like to ascribe small bill special significance just because we know what it means doesn't mean that the world in the story does to the world small bill is just as random a target as metropolis or the Indian Ocean the hygienically there is no significance to metropolis is a target at least not to Clark who has it set up words their yet we simply don't know why it was selected it could have been an optimal target either militarily or for the terraforming process it could of been a convenient one or perhaps it was retribution against Lois but since no reason was given is not necessary that we ascribe to it the meaning that metropolis hold outside the film similarly there's no reason that small bill couldn't have been attacked because that was where Lois's escape pod landed there are small issues of timing but not ones that the world or the military would be aware of the battle a small bill does not for the world mean a battle in Superman's hometown they just aren't privy to that information it doesn't mean anything more to the military just because of general Swan Lake either but more on that later so let's get back to what small bill knows before the black zero event or the BZ E there's probably a general awareness of something pizza mom verifies that there is an awareness of paranormal activities surrounding Clark however it's ascribe to the divine rather than Clark this is barely plausible even today believing in angels and miracles hovers around nearly 80% of all Americans in the early 90s and role Kansas I think it's fair to say it would of been higher thus the secret is preserved because it's a secret more about God than Clark a divine miracle is not particularly confronting in a society already predisposed to believe and it's not worth spreading for those who wouldn't believe in other words it's as likely to impact you as any other religiously-based alleged miracle even if you believe your unlikely to find it life-changing way remarkable since you already believe miracles are possible and if you don't believe your unlikely to take much stock in the allegations although it's mentioned that Clark is isolated as a child his parents would let him play with other kids and he could be surmise that Whitney singled out Clark for bullying because he's odd it's not explicit that these are because an awareness of Clark's abilities which might be a little contradictory I don't know that I would want to provoke somebody who's been rumored to push a bus unless I didn't believe the rumor nonetheless Clark has a track record something weird happened at age 9 something weird happened at age 13 and we have indications that we are things happened in between but after the bus Jonathan Clark have their heart-to-heart with the major revelation and he likely lays low for the remainder of his time in small bill is Clark says at the age of 17 he's tired of playing it safe meaning that he was safe for the intervening years so there was a record their but it's important likely faded until the BZ eat this means likely contrary to tradition Lana Lang and Pete Ross do not explicitly know Clark's secret prior to the BZ eat I'm can apposite that as an explanation for why it seems that Pete directs Lois to be can form if indeed that's what he does we don't know now first off the scene is ambiguous and one-sided we never hear Pete's response to Lois his questions and since she pops up on Martha Stewart step next it to assume that he gave Clark up however you have to consider the context of the question Lois already knows about the bus incident it's unlikely that she didn't already know about Clark at that point he could've clammed up and she still would've gone to Martha based on the bus story alone however if Pete did talk to can be explained by him not having explicit knowledge of Clark's secret in other words he not betraying Clark because he doesn't know the Clark as his secret I tend to fall into the camp that Pete doesn't know this is because Clark seems to be portrayed as largely isolated when he recounts a memory demonstrating the many sides of good and ill of humanity it's of a former bully lending him a hand not an intimate moment where he was able to pour his heart out and share his secret the Pete Ross when Clark seeks counsel he goes to a priest rather than to a friend incidentally there's a good explanation for that and why Clark doesn't go to see Martha Lois or Jor-El but that's another episode so this is all before the BZ E but what about during it while in the costume there's a brief wordless exchange and there appears to be recognition between Clark and Pete Ross so we can speculate that he's aware thereafter well who else in small bill knows there's a common criticism of Lois that typically goes like this Lois is foolish for calling out Clark's name while he's in costume at the Kent farm in front of the police chief compromising his secret identity when is she if she arrived wordlessly at the Kent farm does that somehow preserve Clark Kent's identity any better police officers are not show first they don't just drive you wherever you like to go on your say so Lois must of convince them and when she did she had to direct them to the Kent farm so I'm skeptical that saying Clark added any material information that they weren't already aware of let's quickly go back over the unseen sequence of events to explain why the Police Would Dr., Lois where she wants to go so after the escape pod falls from the sky creating an explosion and a plume of black smoke Superman takes off the officer may or may not have seen Superman but he definitely saw something because his lights are flashing when Lois scales of them he arrives on scene and he sees a smoldering pile of alien wreckage's odds 24 hour ultimatum is still ringing in his ear the deadline which has since passed and that timeline is another episode suggests that the mysterious Cal Al did indeed surrender himself 10 seconds on a smart phone or the patrol cars laptop would verify Lois's identity and her connection to callow rather than somebody who needs to be sobered up in the drunk tank or taken away for psychiatric evaluation of course even if she says she has information for saving the world why wouldn't the officer take her into town for the higher-ups to sort this out this may be above his pay grade after all well as Lois is telling the story and as it's being verified by the officer the battle a small bill breaks out dispatched likely sends out an all points bulletin that US Northern command has ordered all law enforcement to stay out of the way now Lois is motivated to avoid downtown even apart from that danger she can't afford to be stalled and doesn't want to be disappeared again police headquarters didn't eyewitness the escape pod like this officer did and if North con gets involved she may get quarantined and interrogated rather than be allowed to take the immediate actions necessary to Lois need to get this information to Clark at all speed and the only rendezvous point that she knows that he'll go to is the Kent farm as we discussed at the beginning of this episode are many interests protected by the secret identity but none of them which matters the world's for Lois there's no point in standing on pretense she's hearing it over dispatched to the battle a small bill is just the opening salvo to the extermination of all humankind when you way the interest in preserving Clark's identity in a town that already knows and remembers him as weird against all of humankind dying there's no point in contriving some way of protecting the secret identity right now the fate of the world literally rests in your credibility and there's no better way to be credible than to present the truth out of necessity and persuasiveness she asks to be taken to the Kent farm and for the officer suddenly it clicks and it all makes sense Kent as in Clark Kent the boy from the bus incident and all those other times Clark Kent is Cal Al be alien who gave himself up to the threatenings odd the Kents were good people so the police take Lois where she wants to go so it's under this situation and in this context that the police are willing to take Lois wherever she wants to go during a clear crisis and under this context where she is screaming Clark Clark what she's doing is completely reasonable under the circumstances and I just want to disclaim real quick but that is just one possible interpretation of events is not Messerli what explicitly happened but for something to be stupider for something to be a plot hole you can come up with a reasonable explanation to fill in the gaps and here I feel a better explanation is more than reasonable or plausible thus making Lois's actions reasonable and not foolish to Nelson people in small bill know or likely suspect that Clark Kent is Superman what incentives do they have to keep that information to themselves well for starters we got loyalty ingratitude objectively Superman saved the earth which include small bill despite the destruction caused during the battle a small bill Superman fought alongside American troops and when the states are ranked by enlistment Kansas and routinely in the top third depending on how small small bill really is they may personally know Clark and Martha and know them to be good people and so they justifiably protect their own of course even if it were merely a matter of self interest will consider the fact that Lois a famous Pulitzer prize-winning journalist was disappeared on the mere suspicion of evidence I think that that's pretty newsworthy and I think that something shall be happy to report loudly on afterwards so when the men in Black start asking questions your average citizen's can have incentive to disclaim having any knowledge now if it isn't the US government that asking been it's somebody who thinks they can take Superman on and that means a dangerous person and possibly a crazy person and if you're not loyal and you don't hold a high opinion about Superman what about him himself know when's the dark Knight actually lampshades the issue pretty well with the accountant who attempts to blackmail first there's accountability to the crazy billionaire who beats up criminals your hoping he doesn't take reprisal on you in the case of Superman of being that can literally stop an alien invasion and who was completely unaccountable and who can disappear you into space your hoping he doesn't get mad at you second they showed the danger of advertising that knowledge the accountant became a target for the Joker if someone is powerful enough and evil enough to try to tackle Superman might not simply extract that information from you without your consent or just compensation lastly we see that the accountant Silent out of gratitude when Bruce Wayne saves him with the sports car after attempting to betray his employer now here aside from saving the planet I think Clark is been a be in small bill after the BZ E helping Martha rebuilt and that might provide some offscreen opportunity to to forge new packs with the people a small bill in the process now summered in a object and say Lois's interviewees gave up that information what's changed you got a remember the time in the context of those questions that was before the world knew that there was a Superman or that he was an alien protector at that time Lois was approaching them as a fellow rescue we her own story about a mutual Guardian Angel so the disclosures were to a friendly party about something of no particular import or relevance however after Superman's debut there would be little doubt in their minds who their protector was and whether the inquiring parties have as benevolent intentions as Lois did it change the context of the question from sharing a nice story with a fellow fan into knowing that you're betraying your guardian to a hostile wholly different situations like to talk more about the Clark and Lois relationships the timetables and the differences between this and the love triangle tradition but I think this episode is already jampacked so that's another episode so the government is another large figure in Man of Steel and possibly BDS Superman's interactions with the government potentially provides them with a lot of data about himself there's his surrender and interrogation at North come as participation in the battle small bill the supply of his ship to North come in the conversation with general Swan Lake in the drone seen during the course of those encounters the government learns that Superman can fly superstrong can see through walls find disappeared journalists is generally cooperative to a degree and it suggested that he's been amongst humanity for 33 years but it doesn't mean necessarily that he's 33 years old they have his image his speech patterns his word choice etc. in his conversation was Swan Lake he says that he grew up in Kansas and aligns himself with American interests so throughout these events detractors may criticize Superman for not being more careful with his secret identity the argue that if the government didn't already know they now know based on Superman's disclosures therefore Superman was foolish and disclosing so much about himself now I disagree the above criticism assumes that Superman's disclosures made the uncovering of his identity easier than it would have been if he said nothing however it forgets that they already have an easy Avenue into uncovering his identity Swan Lake says now you revealed your identity to Ms. Lane over there in the deleted interrogation of Lois Lane we don't know whether she disclaims knowing Superman's identity or not but clearly Swan Lake believes that she notes therefore if push comes to shove and they absolutely need to obtain Superman's identity they can always get the information from her while data mining interrogation and investigation is more innocuous than violating Lois Lane civil rights it's definitely slower more expensive and more work so why not take the easiest path gloats because the American government has interests to and one of those interests is attempting to maintain its own integrity values and sense of justice in another nation or and other hands there would be no hesitation to forcibly extract that information from an unwilling journalist however the fact that despite a debatable holding her civil rights were not further violated suggests that Man of Steel reflects the more public and decent aspects of the US government this is a government that follows ground rules now we can speculate that the suicide squad will reflect the dark underbelly but that's not confirmed either of the suicide squad could be a private agency when it's all said and done will talk about that later Sophie got a government that's following ground rules then there is reason to believe that they will stop investigating Superman secret identity after Superman speaks with Swan Lake even if the government is interested in knowing Superman's secret identity has other priorities which may trump that interest the government routinely has to balance interests and tolerate matters that are against one interest but is in service to a larger one a trite example the US may have an interest in not being criticized by its citizens has a greater interest in promoting liberty and free speech so has to tolerate a degree of criticism to serve that larger interest or the US might have interests against a foreign government's human rights violations but it tolerates it to a degree because it has a greater interest in peace and avoiding warfare or military intervention perhaps taking half measures like economic sanctions so there are reasons to tolerate Superman to a degree the interrogation scene is the last time the topic of his identity is broached before the drone seen the government knows that to Superman Lois Lane is off-limits he surrendered under the condition that she be set free and she was with him throughout the black zero event they also know that he does not want to or intend to disclose his identity to so they know that that's against his interests that they don't know to what degree the alien volunteered his secret existence his life his freedom his ship's command key his legacy and his people for the planet that he might prefer that they don't know but with the spirit of such volunteerism is not clear that he would object if they found out he trusts at least one other with a secret after all and after serving together as brothers in arms you might not mind so the government pushes the boundaries by surveilling Superman with the drones Superman that obviously pushes back and explains this is an okay this is over the lines of the scene was Swan Lake is the beginning of talks to discuss the terms of Superman's assistance and their relationship is is a slightly more reasonable approach than Superman making a public statement or debut through the press why the effect of any statement that Superman makes would be undercut if not tacitly approved by the government a public declaration of I'm here to help is modeled if the authority immediately retorts on American soil you illegal alien so instead by starting a dialogue with Washington Superman can work out parameters of the relationship my terms as he puts it so when he or they address the public they are in accord now obviously Washington itself is not monolithic so it's doubtful that it has a cord within itself but it's still the right approach to coordinate with the authority rather than trying to blindsided through the people now incidentally the fact that Superman discloses the Swan Lake do not necessarily have to be shared with anyone else Superman makes it clear that he is trusting Swan Lake to speak on his behalf and that extension of trust is characteristic of Superman throughout this film and in the Superman tradition for example the kryptonite ring as discussed in episode seven Swan Lake may appreciate that the information was offered as an extension of trust rather than actionable intelligence in other words I'm telling you something that you can use against me but I'm trusting you not to it similar to the gift of the kryptonite ring which is I'm giving you something you can use against me but trusting you not to in less you determine the situation requires it there is plenty of precedent both in comics and in real life a parties being willfully ignorant of the fact in order to maintain plausible deniability or other interests a great common example is Commissioner Gordon has all the clues tools and ability to determine Batman's identity but for all intents and purposes maintains that he does not know it Swan Lake may respect the trust extended to him and keep Superman's disclosures to himself and major factors so to review why would the government forgo its pursuit of the identity after Superman makes his position clear well there's a public relations issue the US military just save the world in a joint mission with Superman of course they can apply up their role in saving the planet however there's no way that they can disclaim Superman's participation in contribution so do they suggest that they were cooperating with an enemy entity or is it in their interest to show that Superman is a benevolent ally for them to maintain that narrative they have to remain on decent terms with Superman is a national security aspect now whatever threat or compromise of security Superman may represent in his conversations with Swan Lake he aligns his origins and interests in America is there any reason that the government would seek to change that if Superman feels that his interests are threatened by the government there are any number of foreign governments and enemy states that would welcome the demigod with open arms to become a citizen and reside in their borders aggravating Superman turns him from a domestic ally into a foreign threat is the fact that Superman is the only anti-extraterrestrial incursion protocol that we know about libere talked about this and episode two but basically humanity knows it's not alone in the universe anymore and Superman is your only proven defense against alien invasion until you have your own defenses you don't want to do anything that would make Superman think twice the next time he's confronted with the question of whether humanity is worth saving and as we were discussed there's little upside if they want the information they can already get it from Lois Lane moreover the only thing that this information might provide them is perhaps some leverage honor against Superman but Superman is a ready made it clear that he refuses to be controlled so attempting to leverage the identity would only aggravate Superman and potentially cause him to sever ties with the identity and thus as attachments to America and humanity as a whole might be severed the main thing tethering this unaccountable demigod is his feelings towards humanity it is a massive gamble to think that he would rather be controlled by those feelings than to just cut the tether so it makes perfect sense for the government to abandon the inquiry into the identity after Superman speaks was Swan Lake on the flip side of things it makes perfect sense for Superman to disclose information that they could obtain anyways he offers them as symbols of trust and reassurance while making his boundaries clear whatever information he gave couldn't stop them from getting his identity if they absolutely wanted to get it from Lois and he always has the contingency of changing identities or moving so makes sense for Superman to be more forthcoming to a degree and put them at ease the same way that he allowed them to cuff him but at the same time insisting on them not crossing that line the same way that he broke those handcuffs and said let's put our cards on the table what this all boils down to is that the public face of the government may agree to terms that includes ceasing investigation into Superman's identity not acting on that information even if it's uncovered and even actively assisting Superman in maintaining his identity now none of that is clear for shadow entities like the suicide squad but because they're not introduced or even suggested in Man of Steel the film itself is internally consistent and even if it turns out that there were shadow elements completely willing to bend or break the rules the intelligence is not actionable for the reasons that we've already discussed and not altogether different from what already exists in the traditional DC you where for example Batman secret identity was more or less known amongst the covert government agency community the information isn't terribly actionable because six secret intelligence held by a secret agency is invaluable with everybody knows it Orphic compromises the covert nature of the agency it isn't actionable in a way that would promote their interests and it threatens to divorce Superman from humanity the main thing keeping him in check is his belief that he is human at heart now the government is actively assisting Superman in maintaining is identity they could provide quite a bit of help along those lines the government already does so in a number of ways for its own covert operatives spies and intelligence operations a great example is what sec witness security or perhaps better known as witness protection or if you've watched Argo you seen the elaborate lengths that the government may go in order to maintain a cover identity so we talked about small bill we talked about Lois and we talked about the government but of course there are other entities and reasons for wanting to know Superman's identity you've got his detractors enemies or criminals that may want to attack him got those who want to hold them accountable to the law or civil suits another was they want to sue him there are those who are curious there those with scientific interests there those fascinated by celebrity there those with economic interest in selling the information to any of the above however nearly all the details that we discussed our purely in the hands of the government so within the scope of Man of Steel the identity is still reasonably protected what all these other parties represent is difficulty in maintaining the secret going forwards now to discuss this with you have to make some assumptions to limit the scope of possibilities so here's a couple of assumptions that were used to guide our argument first organ assume for simplicity sake that after Man of Steel everyone that does no more could know decide absolutely to keep the secret or not pursue it for the reasons that we've already stated this saves us from descending into further discussion of whether they could or would keep the secret so for example the government or Perry White will not act against Superman's interests and may even assist small bill will keep Clark's secret and that includes the police that drove Lois to the Farm second let's assume a degree of realism except for what introduced in Man of Steel itself in other words the world that's not suspended by tropes because those would allow us to hand waived the issue without any analysis whatsoever a shorthand test for this is whether you believe that the explanation would work on you third no new powers no facial blurring or remodeling know super hypnotism no amnesia kiss and so on fourth we got to assume that's odds broadcast which states for reasons unknown he has chosen to keep his existence a secret from you he will have made efforts to blend in he will look like you this broadcast has dispelled the hand waived that everybody assumes that Superman doesn't have a secret identity because he doesn't wear a mask that's also assumption to because it's not realistic that everyone would make the same on equivocal assumption particularly when Zide broadcast makes it clear that in the past Superman has blended in I know that this is a traditional hand waived and it's difficult for some Superman fans let go of but against the hard light of reality it doesn't work now fifth we have to assume that Superman intends to be a public figure so people are going to see what he looks like he's going to get caught on film that's going to be a part of the public record and six Clark intends to have an ordinary life in metropolis so he's not been a be a recluse he's going to get caught in film people are going to see him as well seventh there's an unknown amount of functional kryptonian technology in the world so Beaux-Arts seven assumptions everyone that does know is coming keep the secret we want to stick to reality no new powers people don't automatically assume that he doesn't have a secret identity Superman intends to be a public figure and Clark is going to be out there as well and finally there is some functional kryptonian technology in the world even with the assist of some of those assumptions honestly I'm still stumped and apparently I'm not alone in recognizing the issue in a July 2013 interview with Empire the interviewer kind of notice the issue and asked Boyer about it here's the clip from the interview intellect the alter ego cockpits Superman we put his glosses on he's a different type think our suicide step in this moving data in a quite quite delicately but comely and you might feel when not traveling nosy your the prevailing if we do another movie Because your pajamas he's been here the Savior Univest how would you don't the dogs we were conscious of the fact that I recently it's not an issue is Lois moving forward she's his secret keeper and and part of unimpressive we do move forward is his day will be involved in a relationship and shall be she would be part of that maintaining a secret you fiction by you it will part of the fun of doing things like this though increases always said this is sometimes you write yourself into a corner that you have to follow to its logical conclusion and then see if you can figure a way out of it so I think that appear is not an idiot either. Saw. Notice the have a connection. Saw them kiss it out at the end of the were very aware of that and so one would presume that moving forward. Say what's the deal here in our on so if the film is embraced over the next few weeks on and we formalize things on this something we plan to follow up on sometimes you write yourself into a corner but you have to follow through to its logical conclusion and see if you can figure a way you so lawyer acknowledges that it's something that they have to find a way out of but I don't have anything that elegantly solve that issue definitively or reliably I know at this point that some of you are upset and pulling some of the traditional justifications out and offering them up and in brief I imagine they mostly fall under the following first you have that universal assumption that he mask lists Superman doesn't need or have a secret identity and a variation of that is the idea that Luther refuses to accept that Superman could be Clark Kent even if that revelation were thrust upon him the second common hand waived is variations on acting so he changes his appearance his mannerisms his voice and behavior and somehow this acting is more or less full proof another common comic book unique solution is the simultaneous appearance we've got androids in shape shifters and holograms and superspeed and ulcers of other ways of peering simultaneously with Clark Kent to hopefully dispel the notion that they are one in the same now because I'm running hot I'm not can a break down each one of these on why they in my opinion don't work in a fully realized unrealistic universe I would just implore you to apply the the reality test of whether these would work on you on a day-to-day basis if you were to employ them on say a significant other is a mask lists superhero were to appear in the real world and Zide makes an announcement that at one point he did try to blend in and appear just like the rest of us don't think it's fair to say that the entire planet every individual and every person of the world would say no chance no possibility that back I has a secret identity still right as far as the acting is concerned unquestionably you can fool people briefly unquestionably you can. Your's you can fool passerby's and even casual acquaintances and even close and intimate people occasionally in a short or brief instance in an anecdotal moment and a few times but on a day-to-day basis I don't think is going to work I've never watched a movie where the matter how much the actors transform themselves short of complete prostheses and special effects actually completely changing the face short of that where I didn't recognize the actor you can suspend your sense of belief you can be taken away by the moment and the storytelling and transported to a place where they embody that other person for a period of time but it's not a permanent affect it's not like you're confused and can't say that you wouldn't recognize this actor is that actor in two different's performances so even really effective really dramatic acting I don't think it's enough to distinguish the two the simultaneous appearances again it similar to the acting issue in the sense that both of these individuals exactly alike or both of these individuals look very uncannily similar and if it was my loved one it was my coworker somebody that I see every day that's really been a bug me even if it completely plausible explanation or reason than saying you know sometimes people look like these two guys look uncannily alike and is living if they appear the same time the comic book universe then you like all well of course they couldn't possibly be the same person write I shook his hand I shook his hand and that means there mutually exclusive these two individuals can possibly be the same person have to understand that in a real universe one of these guys represents a physics reality breaking extraterrestrial right so the rules of reason and boundaries and practicality have been broken it's a massive assumption to say just because I saw this could these two guys together they could be the same person for all you know that's within the power set where the ability of this crazy physics defying alien just because they appear together in the same location or same place is not going to suddenly cause me to say well you know what they bear a striking resemblance but I'm just going to say that there different people I think that's going to still Maginn your brain I think you're still do have questions it's going to increase the scrutiny and the more scrutiny that you applied to the situation the more the disguise can fall apart now of course most the things that talked about our a strong and good justification for why they did not maintain the trope or maintain the tradition of Lois not being able to see through or around the disguise I think Man of Steel is justifiably skeptical of that tradition and exchange gives us a Lois that is a comrade from the beginning and helps in the formation of his character and so in a reality and in a storytelling world with a ready skeptical of the disguise the question is can you maintain it and there may be more creative or brilliant people out there that know of a way to do so I hope that the filmmakers are among them but if you have an idea or if you have a way that you think that Clark and maintain his identity under the same level of scrutiny that traditionally Lois would put him under definitely share in the comments and deftly read it out in a future podcast give you full credit for it because this is something that's deftly stumping me I think the main out that I can think of aside from sort of ignoring the problem handwaving it or sort of dialing back on the reality the main way that they can sort of fix it within the reality of the story is to make the daily planet all co-conspirators in this secret identity of because it is the people that you routinely interact with more supporting the secret identity then most these issues are less apparent and then you can rely and some of the softer or less effective techniques just for those day-to-day encounters with casual acquaintances and and complete strangers on the street of course that is in and of itself another issue hundred society is just loaded with cameras you've got closed-circuit television on every corner everybody's got a smart phone its surveillance all the time play 47 and Clark decides to step into a major metropolitan city with extraordinary population density so he is going to get caught on camera there's no escaping it and at the same time Superman is the biggest story in the world his very existence changes reality so if I'm sorry who takes a snapshot and I see somebody on the street who looks uncannily like the number one celebrity on the planet I'm going to doesn't go actions I'm going on the have some questions about been a be curious and you may find that post on Reddit the next day right of all that said there are plenty of creative techniques for making this less of an issue if we dial back the reality a little or if we ignore it or do a lamp shading scene where the disguise works in a certain context all of backing go towards mitigating any issues that we have with this traditional trope they could go melodramatic with it imagine Luther scolding other villains for attempting to uncover Superman's identity the only thing holding back this incredibly powerful alien is that he labors under the misapprehension that he's a human being Luther warns that threatening those ties only drives the alien towards becoming the tyrant that they all fear it's a little like the joke that the super villains all know Superman secret identity but they've all agreed to allow him the illusion of Clark Kent because it keeps them busy working 40 hours a week obviously this isn't the case but there is a kernel of truth in there that it's even within the villains interests for Superman to have and be Clark Kent in any case while I don't have an answer in this circumstance think we can file this under commentary and we can look forward to how the filmmakers will tackle this topic and any listener insights or answers that you guys would like to share now speaking of the listeners let's go to the mail this and here asks did Zide realize he'd lose his powers by making earth like krypton and if he didn't how would he rule over all those people with powers well yes's odd new but's odds conception of krypton was narrow you got a consider this Zide had everything he needed to resume the kryptonian race fans a planet on the black zero alone the only thing stopping him 33 years the conviction that natural birth is heresy he's genetically predisposed and possibly semantically trained to hold that conviction so strongly that he'd rather his species go extinct than to attempt to repopulate through natural birth never that sound like somebody that is willing to accept a chaotic society of super beings let's not forget that he was sentenced for attempting a coup those who rebel and betray they have a tendency to fear betrayal themselves and to worry about traders and their missed this is reinforced by the fact that Zide only trusted a total of two kryptonian's and himself to go to earth and gain access to superpowers is odd absolutely trusted his crew there's no reason he couldn't of dropship them all around the planet to enforce his plan was odd would have good reason to doubt if someone like say jacks are were to taste that power whether they would cooperate and give it out out of loyalty to his plant you pointed out the issue yourself how would you rule over a society a super beings whereas with normal beings the military taste would still be up to control things by force her Zen moo asks why did it have to be earth why couldn't Zide have terraform Mars or another planet and we talked about this in the past as well but it simply because an opportunity presented itself the Phantom drive is finite if the Phantom drive was an infinitely renewable resource than krypton could've stopped mining its core and it wouldn't have died so that means is on has a limited number of jumps and a limited number of opportunities to use the world engines on have to be confident that it would work to risk expending their finite Phantom drive there were no sister planets no living colonies so to our knowledge nothing has ever been successfully or permanently terraform and that means that the parameters for terraforming are far more narrowband detractors who thinks Zide could've terraform Mars or any arbitrary rock incorrectly presumed it also means that's odd was predisposed to terraform Earth under any circumstances Jor-El knew this that's why he conveys the plan to Lois even before Zide releases the world engine angle shares and insight that it's possible that Superman's invulnerability can be controlled by his will so he wants to shave he simply lowers his force field and becomes like a normal human being that's an interesting idea it's different than tradition but it could be possible as long as the switch is the only at will part meaning that he can maintain his invulnerability even if he's unconscious to be consistent with the film we didn't explicitly talk about scaling senses her actions in our series of powers episodes of the ability to willfully switch is one way to make a lot of that stuff work so thanks for sharing the idea of Godzilla of steel wants to know if Warner Bros. mandated Snyder to include Batman he gives the example of Sony interfere with Remy and requiring the inclusion of them he wants to know if Snyder will be required to have Batman be Superman and get more screen time I covered studio interference in a recent blog but this is the just Snyder requires creative control to remain motivated he's had it on all of his films except towards the end of legend of the guardians and he never wants to repeat that experience so part of being convinced that he could tackle Superman was knowing that Christopher Nolan would protect him from studio interference along with his wife producer Deborah Snyder can imagine that he'd sign on for three more films minimum if he didn't have assurances about creative control and historically for better or worse the WB has proven that they are a hands-off studio with their favorite directors just look at the films of the Witkowski's Noland and athletic is also the sting of Green Lantern and that will remain as a persistent reminder not to attempt to direct from the boardroom or by committee the WB has put their fate into Snyder's hands and they know how creative quarrels with directors can sink confidence in the film more than any marketing imposition might improve it so Snyder is going to have freedom and he was on board with the decision to have Batman in the film in a Forbes interview he explains that they were trying to think of the next great adversary worthy of Superman recognizing that it was difficult to go bigger than's odd in a planet threatening alien invasion at some point the idea of Batman was pitched and as we covered and episode two he serves as a perfect foil to show that Superman is multidimensional and compelling in a smaller character driven story with the stakes aren't necessarily planetary and power-based anymore in a shared universe really does no better way to characterize Superman than as a foil to Batman and their duality is something unique to the DC mythos which has been compelling to this day they will have to establish that a man in a Cal is a worthy antagonist to enforce Superman so expect him to get his licks and and adjust your expectations of you think otherwise making a good film comes first and that's before Batman fandom and before Superman Phantom narratively there is nothing compelling about Superman beating Batman in an obvious fashion even if it makes for fun YouTube clips however in the ways that really matter expect both heroes to be up to showcase White bear the world's most enduring superheroes yes the going to have to make Batman relevant to Superman but much more importantly they have to make Superman relevant to the justice league and the have to make the justice league relevant to the world if Superman is easily defeated or disrespected by Batman be completely undermines the creative goal of moving towards a league that the world needs and that the audience wants to see who needs a league if an ordinary mortal man can do it all for the same reason I think any fear that Batman is going to be the thrust of the film is misplaced because establishing Batman doesn't establish or legitimize the league but again a good film comes first Batman must and will get great scenes it would be absurd to make a film that tears Batman down purely in service of Superman fan insecurities instead look for Batman to help highlight all the reasons that the league needs Superman and super and for Superman to highlight why Batman is the first hero he looks to as his friend aren't I think I've rambled on long enough Man of Steel answers insight commentary is a proud member of the Superman podcast network so here are some promos for the network shows that I suggest you check out if you want to extend your enjoyment of the Superman mythos got it together from the far reaches of beings that are assembled and that's what got dedicated to the bust greatest superhero a is Superman like featuring Superman: the DC comics crisis Superman podcast is Superman this you will podcast is Superman forever and about the you you you you you will podcast KL from Superman homepage.com is John Wilson really help you are leaving my present bat your retailer Michael they start to Sam result is the Mario is given by an highlighted I gave Younis and how has Gotti they because that what thanks so much soliciting I just love discussing the stuff and if you been sticking with me hopefully you do to generally grateful for each and every listener and hope you join us@ManofSteelofSteelanswers.com that way questions you want answered insights you want to share commentary to make you can post in the comments for all your like-minded apologist or you can email me@mosaicandManofSteelofSteelanswers.com if you like what you heard please review the show in iTunes and subscribed this is Dr. awkward your DC cinematic universe apologist signing off CNX time