“I Told You So!”
Hindsight is 20/20, I thought it’d be funny to look back at a “leak” claiming to describe the Snyder Cut from November 18, 2017.
With the release and reception of Zack Snyder’s Justice League there is much cause for celebration, gratitude, and congratulations. There’s also a baser instinct to go after those who didn’t believe along the way; An incredible temptation to unleash a torrent of “I told you so!” For my part, I’ve recommend amnesty because they can only add to our support. If there’s a message in the movie, the movement, and the marketing, it’s “Us United.”
And yet, I still have to say, “I told you so” not to detractors, but to adherents who had bought into a rumor spread wide around the web during the early days of the Snyder Cut; before it had become a hashtag! In December 1, 2017, I published the provocatively titled Don’t Be As Gullible As Kevin Smith. The contents actually praise Smith’s support of DC and only mildly chastise him for multiplying the reach of a rumor, the contents of which were where my grievance actually was. Dubbed “Differences”, it was supposedly a bulleted list of 21 differences between the theatrical Justice League and Snyder’s unseen film; posted anonymously to Reddit by an alleged insider.
To me, it was immediately obviously a fake, filled with contradictions and lacking the ring of truth… but it spread to mainstream pop-culture sites and two-weeks later Kevin Smith was reading from the list on his podcast reaching hundreds of thousands of viewers. The post was imploring people to ask for the real thing, not this fabrication. Thank goodness the movement was bigger than this and never adopted it as true (though there continued to be those here and there that would insist upon its truth) and so the integrity of what we were asking for was preserved.
With the release of Zack Snyder’s Justice League and the surrounding promotional interviews, it’s clear what the film is, what it was, and what it was not during the grueling 7-month process to finish the film for release, $70M and 2656 visual-effects-shots later. This is a reminder to be humble in what we think we know, before we attack and ask for heads to roll.
Again, thank goodness this didn’t develop real traction otherwise it would have given executives every excuse to say, “Look, the fans don’t want the Snyder Cut, they want this thing… and this proves they don’t know what they’re talking about because this thing isn’t the Snyder Cut!”; discrediting the cut and the fans. But perfection is the enemy of good and fortunately we had the benefit of Smith’s support which extended to the premiere of Zack Snyder’s Justice League.
“Snyder’s vision asks us to examine our contributions to the stories we engage with . . . Stand. Fight. Discover. Heal. Love. Win.”
For posterity, now that the threat of this rumor replacing reality is gone, I’m going to reprint the post here in its entirety so you can see how it compares to what the Snyder Cut actually is. The Reddit link is here. Astonishingly every single point contains a falsehood! 🤣
“Differences”
By now, it would have become clear that the version I saw had chunks different than the theatrical version. As I’ve said before that I saw the version that was done before the reshoots were added. Like I said, it wasn’t shown to fans – only to WB Execs. Here were the differences.
- LONGER: Began with Bruce recruiting Aquaman. It was basically the same scene as I saw in the theatrical version this weekend. However, some lines were added by Whedon and some Zack bits were cut. Aquaman was originally more resilient and shut-off to Bruce here.
- DELETED: Barry Allen visits the library because he knows that Iris West is there. He tries to talk to her but fumbles and blushes. He mentions that “he might go and see his Dad today”. Iris likes his awkwardness but doesn’t think he’s all that special. We see Barry breaking the window with his finger to kind-of impress Iris (our FIRST look at his powers). When everyone and Iris are surprised at this window breaking, Barry just says “weak glass” and walks out.
- LONGER: History Lesson. But just by some bits. What I was most surprised by was that WB cut out dialogue by the Green Lantern, Zeus and even Ares (Yes, he was there too). They had a couple of lines each. As did Robin Wright and Hippolyta. They just kept the action in and clicked out all dialogue, I guess.
- DELETED: After taking the Mother Box from Themiscyra, Steppenwolf actually “talks” to the Box. His mother, Heggra’s essence is alive in the Mother Boxes and bringing them all together would unleash her powers – finally giving Steppenwolf an edge over his younger brother – Darkseid. That is what his plan was originally. I thought for sure that they would keep this scene in because they used a dialogue from this scene in the trailers – “No protectors here. No Lanterns. This world will fall. You will be free, mother.”
- DELETED – Cyborg’s previous life. He plays a great football match that his MOTHER (Yes, she was cast as well) attends. Afterwards, they drive home. Victor is angry that his Dad never made it while his mother tries to console him. Victor just keeps getting angry and lashing out, loses control of the car – causing a fiery crash.
- LONGER – The Gordon scene had a little setup that I didn’t see in the theatrical version. Gordon dismisses a Junkie and tells him to “get better at life” before another cop comes to him with drawings of Parademons. His conversation with the League also ran longer. First, he asks Wonder Woman “if she’s the same woman he keeps seeing reports of in London”. Then, he asks Cyborg “how does he eat? Does he even need to?”.
- DELETED: After the attack on Atlantis, Aquaman consults with Mera and Vulko over what he should do next. Mera wants him to stay as King because she “doesn’t trust Orm”. Vulko wants him to do what his heart says. Aquaman confesses that he feels a responsinility to help the people on Earth.
- DELETED: The League visits the Batcave. Alfred has humorous reactions to the League. Bruce Wayne talks about a “nightmare” he had. He believes that Steppenwolf will try and resurrect the power of Superman and “that they must do it first unless they want to fight an Evil Kryptonian too.”
- CHANGED: Superman’s resurrection was ONLY possible because Cyborg detects foreign genetic material in his DNA a.k.a the Codex. This is the final confirmation needed that Superman can be brought back to life after all. Then, the revival happens pretty much the same.
- DELETED: Deathstroke breaks Lex out of prison. They part ways because the cops are hot on their trail – deciding to meet up later at “the location they discussed”.
- DELETED: Kent Farm. Superman brings Lois here. however, he is still very confused and not knowing what’s happening. Bystanders are looking at him and clicking his photos. This confuses him further and he actually tries to attack the civilians with his laser-eyes before Lois manages to calm him down. Superman tells her that “the voices won’t shut up”. Later, Martha shows up here and Clark and Lois are already inside the house. Clark is calmer now but still very confused – his powers are going haywire and his senses are heightened. Martha gives the “Picture the world as an Island. Follow my voice and come back to me” speech from MoS. It seems to calm him down. Later, Clark is wearing his shirt when he sees Pa Kent (Yes, Costner was here too) out in the fields. He goes out to see him. Pa Kent talks about “embracing who you really are”. He tells Clark that “you have to make peace with who you are. You have the power to change the world and you can do that as anyone, good character or bad.” Clark finally embraces Superman as a part of him when Lois walks out. Clark confirms their engagement, Lois breaks down because she wasn’t strong enough. Then, Martha comes out too as Clark decides to help the League and flies off. That’s how it happened in my version. I may have paraphrased some dialogue but that was basically it.
- DELETED: Clark heads up to meet Alfred and get his suit.
- DELETED: Steppenwolf’s second conversation with Heggra. Now that he has all three Mother Boxes – her return to this world can begin.
- CHANGED: Bruce’s conversation with Diana after Superman returns. Diana comes in to pop Bruce’s shoulder and tend to his injuries. Bruce reveals that he is willing to die to save the world. In fact, he says “he deserves to die because of what he’s done. He’s killed people and nothing, not even his hate for Superman can justify killing like that”. Diana tells him that “he’s changed now” but Bruce remains adamant that he can only atone himself by sacrificing his life.
- CHANGED: Bruce’s Batmobile is headed to certain death during the finale when Wonder Woman and Aquaman interfere and save his life. They tell him that dying in battle won’t do anything and he must live to keep the fight going.
- ALTERNATE ENDING WE WERE SHOWN: Cyborg tries to separate the Mother Boxes while Heggra keeps trying to talk him away. Furious, Steppenwolf grabs him and rips him apart – essentially killing him.
- CHANGED: Superman joins the fight and teams up with the League to defeat Steppenwolf. However, at one point, Steppy tries to tempt Superman into joining his army and we see Darksied (for the first time) in Superman’s vision and we see flashes of the Knightmare footage. However, Superman SNAPS back from it and delivers the final blow to Steppy, defeating him.
- DELETED: Steppenwolf is killed by Darkseid on Apokolips. Darkseid intends to come to Earth to “meet the Kryptonian”.
- DELETED: Aquaman meets Mera off the village coast and agrees to come back. Barry steps into the library, Iris smiles at him cutely.
- DELETED: Bruce and Barry place Victor’s “body” in the Batcave. Bruce comments that “his organic tissue is dead but it may be possible to reignite his mechanical parts”. Barry promises to help however he can.
- DELETED: Lois introduces Perry White to “Clark Kent a.k.a Superman”.
That’s all I can remember right now. I definitely liked what I saw earlier better. I’m just going off a month old memory now.
1. Begins with Superman’s death cry, not the recruitment.
2. Not a library or a bid to impress Iris.
3. No dialogue.
4. No Heggra.
5. Victor isn’t driving, crash is unseen.
6. All wrong.
7. No such scene.
8. No race to resurrect.
9. No Codex.
10. No Deathstroke breakout.
11. All wrong.
12. No suit retrieval.
13. No Heggra.
14. No such scene.
15. No such scene.
16. No Cyborg death.
17. No temptation.
18. No death on Apokolips
19. No library, no Iris.
20. No body.
21. No Perry.
Literally every. Single. Point. Wrong.
I for one never got into that leak and the only interesting thing about the KS video was Darkseid. Speaking of which, when the Lady said not fully done maybe she meant Uxas or the CGI thought the Suit thing is peculiar. Did she mean full Darkseid as in with armour?
Either way, what I was more focused on was the overall feel of the movie whether it still was a Zack Snyder movie or not.
Snyder showed the studio 3 cuts in late 2016 or early 2017. One was about 3 hours long, one 2:40 and one only 2:20. None of them could have been this of course. The fake leak still fueled the flames so it did its job. The later insights by Smith that came from the effects crew were mostly on the money of course. The league would stay on earth but the rest lines up fine with Snyder´s 2014 ideas and his newer ones. Let´s hope we get those comics. RTSV needs to start somewhere.
I wonder what this Heggra stuff is about. She is Steppenwolf´s biological sister and not mother and some might have misinterpreted the lines in the 2017 cut about him wanting to make Mother proud while making this fictional SC up. The soul of Granny Goodness was trapped in a Mother Box in Rock of Ages so the basic idea isn´t too far out there. Let´s see if we learn what the 3 souls that look like the Greek Fates are inside the boxes in TSC. Could be the mystics, could not.
I wonder if Snyder shot any sort of footage for the “Eggmorphing” homage in the tunnel outside of stunt rehearsals and Pre Viz. The History Lesson explains what Parademons are and the last one seen in the film, the very different looking one that is based on Weta designs for BvS, might be a human-based Parademon. Neither Snyder nor I have regrets about what isn´t in the film from all that we know but the one scene would have helped the plot. Oh well.
Hi Doc,
So in one trailer we see a human soldier turning into a parademon in the 5000 year flashback to the Age of Heroes. Was this due to the anti-life equation? Why do you think Snyder cut this out of the film?
Also the anti-life equation stuff was a bit messy. Snyder says Darkseid forgot. Okay, but why would the entire Apokoliptian Armada forget too? And why would their ships not have a record of the planet?
Unless Darkseid never explained to anyone that wat he found was the equation? And maybe the Apokoliptians did have a record of Earth, but simply did not note that it had the equation? Only coming back due to the death of Superman awkenning the Mother boxes etc.
Anyway would love to hear your throughs. Desperate for a new podcast episode honestly.
Also Please consider opening Twitter DM’s. Thank you.
See the latest episode
always good to see a new post from you. Thanks
What a s****y movie it would have been…
So excited for your next podcast episode!! I’ve been checking back every day since ZSJL was released.
Thanks for the kind words. Episode would’ve been out two weeks ago but had an unexpected Spring Break vacation opportunity my family had to take. When I returned, ready to edit, turned out the recording was set to the webcam mic! I considered giving up but muscled through so I could enjoy Justice Con this weekend.